New ork player with some questions.

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**Sanguine Sympathy**

Hey, I'm starting orks, and I had a couple questions.

Boyz. 12 of them. in trukks. Worth it? Should I take shootas or choppas?

Nobz. I know the normal loadout is PK + bosspole. Are big choppas good too? What other options are good?

What is the verdict on the fast attack section? I don't REALLY like any of it, they all seem to do the same job, while being fragile but fast. What units are worth it, and what units aren't?

Besides battlewagons, what other HS options are good?

And besides lootas, what other Elites are good?

Are Warbosses and Big Meks the only good HQs?

**Cheese Elemental**

Boyz in Trukks are good, but they'll lose out to big tough units like large Necron Warrior blocks. Always run them with sluggas and choppas, as you won't be doing much apart from assaulting.

Nobz are best in a dedicated BW transport with your Warboss or character attached. Cybork bodies and Painboyz are always worth it for the massive survivability, and even unupgraded Nobz dish out a lot of hurt when they charge. Take a few Power Klaws, maybe one for every three Nobz. Big Choppas are good options, especially against non-MEQ armies, because you can instagib Farseers, Autarchs, Company Commanders, etc. Bikes are a very popular option for their incredible speed and durability.

Fast attack is pretty good. Stormboyz are a very useful unit, essentially being Boyz that move really fast and don't need a transport. Take large groups of them and go nuts! Warbikerz might seem bad at first, but as I've recently discovered, they've quite good. They have excellent shooting and are quite durable with FNP, 4+ cover, and 4+ armour. Deffkoptas are good, especially with TL Rokkit Launchas and buzzsaws for fast-moving tank-hunters.

The Heavy Support section is excellent. Killa Kans and Deff Dreads can be combined with footslogging Boyz to make a very tough Wall of Doom (tm). Be sure to take Skorchas and an extra CCW on your Deff Dreads so they don't have to worry about their BS2. Killa Kans can be equipped with Kustom Mega-blastas, which are great on them because they don't suffer from BS2 or Gets Hot! Big Gunz aren't bad, I've used them in games with my footsloggers to great effect. Just use Kannons though, as Zzap Gunz aren't very reliable in my experience and Kannons can deal with infantry or bust tanks from a distance, something Orks lack otherwise.

Lootas aren't the only good elite choice; as has been said, Nobz are great, and Meganobz are awesome in Battlewagons with a Warboss or character attached. If you're feeling daring, you can take 50 Meganobz with dedicated BWs.

Burna Boyz can be very good against MEQs in a HS Battlewagon; they can disembark and charge using power weapons, so you have this nice ball of S4 PW death rolling around that can lay down a lot of templates.

Warbosses and Big Meks are not the only viable choice; characters are great! Wazdakka allows for a true Kult of Speed army to be made, with Bikerz galore, and he's no pushover himself on his Bike of the Aporkalypse. Ghazghkull is a beast, great for leading Meganobz, and is very tough to crack. Grotsnik is good for an army looking for durability, and is a huge boost for Meganobz because he lets them take Cybork bodies!
Zogwort is OK. He's awesome at killing characters due to Zogwort's Curse. It's always hilarious to see Abaddon, the Warmaster of Chaos and the doom of the Imperium get turned into a Squig.

**Eyclonus**

Cheese Elemental is pretty much right, I disagree with the deffkoptas but thats more a case of personal preferences.

Kommandos are cheap Elites, taking 3 mobs I highly recommend not doing, but a great tactic is to take 15 of them, give 2 Burnas, take Boss Snikrot and keep them in reserve so you can use his ability to come in on your opponent's table edge and hit any infantry sitting around the backline.

To elaborate on the Mega-nobz; don't take them if you don't want to take a BW. YOU NEED IT! The BW really helps solve the S&P rule that cripples them as a unit, it also makes for a massive power unit as if you take a deff-rolla and it is treated as effective against vehicles (I'm not saying that it isn't but you know some people will argue) then you can mow through squadrons of light vehicles and weak infantry.

With regard to the other choices for HQ, Weirdboyz lack the pure beefiness of the Warboss or the Mek's KFF, I have heard people hypothesise that you could build an army based on 2 weirdboyz and getting a waaagh!!! buff every odd turn...
But I haven't heard of anyone pulling that off.
I've had solid success with Ghazghkull and Zogwort, as Ghaz's buff guarantees 2 good turns and Zogwort bought me a 1st turn waaagh!!! and another one after Ghaz's wore off.

Zogwort is good as an assassin, but he should never be the primary HQ. It is an absolute ROFLMAO moment if you can Squiggify Abaddon and a DP in the same game!!

Deff Dreads are ok, I don't hate them, but I prefer Killa Kans for the BS 3 Kustom Mega Blastas. Best use for them is fielded as troops with CCW/Skorcha, a KFF Big Mek HQ (or two Big Meks with KFF and SAG), being supported by 9 Killa Kans.

I also like Kans for being cheaper for me to buy as last time I checked prices I could get 3 Killa Kans for $9 more than a single Deff Dread (and thats at the cheapest for Deff Dreads in my area).

Also notice that Flash Gitz weren't mentioned, its for a very good reason, same with looted wagons. Neither of these units can do something that another unit can't do cheaper and better.

**starbomber109**

Sanguine Sympathy wrote:Boyz. 12 of them. in trukks. Worth it? Should I take shootas or choppas?

Choppas are good in trukks, but I've seen people running nothing but shoota boyz in the trukks and doing the 'jump out and shoot' tactic, and it seems to work pretty well. It just depends on what you want the trukk to do I guess.

I could be nice and say "looted wagons can have a use" but battlewagons and Kanz are too awesome in comparison and the looted wagons steal their slot in the FoC....still, it costs the same as a trukk, so if you need a trukk and you have a spare HS slot, it couldn't hurt, but only take one if you are desprate to spend 50 points somewhere in HS.

The same can be said for Flash Gitz. It'd be cool to model some, but they steal the HS slot of the awesome battlewagons/Kanz, and D6AP is way too random for them to be usefull.

**WarmasterScott**

Well kinda ddepends on the pt totals your looking to play at , but In seeing orks in action you can never go wrong with tons of boyz.. cause they can hold objectives and kill with some of the best troops for there amazing cost of 6!

**Major Malfunction**

Trukk Boyz are certainly fast and I've seen them used to good effect. If you take one you need to take multiples though (so you get critical mass at the point of assault) and hit the same spot with them all. Choppas for the extra attack.

I think the whole reason for taking a Nob is to get the PK and Bosspole. I don't like the Big Choppa myself; while it is S7 on the charge in init order the enemy still gets saves and you are going simultaneous at best in most cases. Since you can't pick the Nob out of a Mob I'd rather have the S9 and no armor save option.

As for Fast, Deffkoptas are OK as an objective denial unit. Put a buzzsaw on one and they are also a great way to tie up REMF. Devastators, Basalisks, and Whirlwinds are now not safe setting back and firing. I also like Buggies with Big Shootas on them; they are cheap, have a good range and are twin linked. Great end run harassing units and they also fill the objective denial role.

My favorite Heavy Support is the Looted Wagon with Boomgun. I like a mobile fire base and these fit the bit. Couple with a KFF Mek and they can actually survive most games. Battlewagons are the shiznit of course, but they are really a delivery system and not a shooting platform IMHO. Take a Deff Rolla.

Kommandos are probably the favorite Elite selection for the non-Lootas. I like them because the perceived threat is worth more than the actual threat. Couple Kommandos with Snikrot and a bunch of Trukk Boyz and you force the enemy to choose which they want to get assaulted by. Deploy far back from the Trukks and get hit by the Kommandos... push up off the board edge and you are that much closer to the Trukks.

My HQ choices are largely dependent on what the army is like:

Fast "In Your Face" armies get a Warboss on a Bike most times.
The "Sledgehammer" lists get a MegaBoss and a KFF Mek in Battlewagons with Nobs and Boys. Maybe some Trukks to.
My SAFH lists get two Meks, one with KFF and one with SAG. Lootas, Lootas, more Lootas, couple Looted Wagons w/Boomguns, and Shoota Boyz. Lots of Shoota Boyz.

The Weirdboyz and Warpheadz are more "For Fun" HQs but Old Zogwort is pretty nasty. Watching Abbadon go POOF and turn into a squig will make your opponent cry.

**starbomber109**

The Green Git wrote:I think the whole reason for taking a Nob is to get the PK and Bosspole. I don't like the Big Choppa myself; while it is S7 on the charge in init order the enemy still gets saves and you are going simultaneous at best in most cases. Since you can't pick the Nob out of a Mob I'd rather have the S9 and no armor save option.

Agreed. PK is essential, especially since Orks don't get meltabombs. You have got to win combat with orks and a Power Fist hidden in there will help you IMMENSELY with this, because if you lose you'll take fearless wounds and lose more than half your mob. While I agree with you here, the next bit...

My favorite Heavy Support is the Looted Wagon with Boomgun. I like a mobile fire base and these fit the bit. Couple with a KFF Mek and they can actually survive most games. Battlewagons are the shiznit of course, but they are really a delivery system and not a shooting platform IMHO. Take a Deff Rolla.

I have to disagree, the Battlewagon with a KillKannon can move 6" and fire it's main gun, and it can carry what, about 12 models with that thing mounted? (so, the KK takes away it's main draw as a transport, but gives it an awesome gun) And it's AV 14 throwing around what amounts to plascannon shots. The looted wagon is AV 11, while it's not bad, it's not good either, and if you zoom out with 'don't touch dat!' you'll be away from your KFF. If your going to run a wagon with a kannon, don't give it a rolla, as you don't want it to get within melta range ever, give it a ram and stay as far away as you can.

Edit: Transport wagon however, should be lightly armed, and also mount the rolla, but be open topped so you can assault out of it.

I like the rest of your post though :3

**number9dream**

... Warbikerz might seem bad at first, but as I've recently discovered, they've quite good. They have excellent shooting and are quite durable with FNP, 4+ cover, and 4+ armour. Deffkoptas are good, especially with TL Rokkit Launchas and buzzsaws for fast-moving tank-hunters.

Just wanted to point out that Warbikers do NOT get FNP. I'm not sure I'd ever use them unless I was running Wazdakka tho?

As for Deffkoptas, it should be mentioned (in case OP isn't aware) that they can turbo-boost in the scout phase (24"), then move another 12", shoot 24 (rokkits) and assault 6" so you can get a ton (well, 3 per deffkopta assuming you took a buzzsaw) of first turn auto-hits on the back armour of vehicles if you go first. And with the buzzsaw you are S7 on the charge.

The looted wagon is AV 11, while it's not bad, it's not good either, and if you zoom out with 'don't touch dat!' you'll be away from your KFF. If your going to run a wagon with a kannon, don't give it a rolla, as you don't want it to get within melta range ever, give it a ram and stay as far away as you can.

Should be able to keep the zooming about in check if you keep a few grots in the way (the mek needs to hide somewhere anyway, doesn't he?), they can't go very far then

**indigo_jones**

As far as the Elites choices go, I can't emphasize enough how disgusting burna boyz are. In my 1750 league list I run 10 of them with a KFF mek with PK. Put them in a BW flanked with some tank poppers (i.e koptas, or what I use, rokkit buggies), you'll usually pop rhinos or chimeras, then unleash flamer madness on the fools inside. You can reliably wipe out marine squads, I usually net about 40 hits with 10 flamers, 20 wounds...you get the idea.

Lootas are great, theres nothing more to be said.

Kommandos are good with Snikrot, though I personally don't use him. You have to be willing to invest the points though, as a 15 man squad with burnas and Snikrot is about as expensive as a decent nob squad.

Your heavy support choices should be maxed out with either kans, if you're running kan wall, or BWs if you're doing KoS. I rarely have a BW that costs more than 110, they're really not fire platforms, just beefy transports.

I use trukks filled with shoota boyz. In my league list I have two squads of shootas nob with PK in trukks. I usually keep them in reserve you come in off the edge and bump someone of an objective, its worked well in all the games I've played.

The looted wagon is tempting, but I've really never had good games with it consistently. too fragile, and the dont push dat rule always seems to take effect at the worst possible time.

For HQs I usually only run the Warboss and KFF Mek. I use a KoS army, so the KFF is a necessity. The characters are cool, and have their own uses, but I've found that the Warboss fills Ghazghulls role adequately (not as good, but adequately) while being around 100 points cheaper.

**Major Malfunction**

indigo_jones wrote:Kommandos are good with Snikrot, though I personally don't use him. You have to be willing to invest the points though, as a 15 man squad with burnas and Snikrot is about as expensive as a decent nob squad.

Gotta disagree here. A full boat Kommando squad with two burnas AND Snikrot will run you what... 250-260 points?

Nobs squads, properly kitted and with a transport or bikes can easily run 600 points.

**Eyclonus**

The Green Git wrote:
indigo_jones wrote:Kommandos are good with Snikrot, though I personally don't use him. You have to be willing to invest the points though, as a 15 man squad with burnas and Snikrot is about as expensive as a decent nob squad.

Gotta disagree here. A full boat Kommando squad with two burnas AND Snikrot will run you what... 250-260 points?

Nobs squads, properly kitted and with a transport or bikes can easily run 600 points.

Are you talking about giving ALL of them PKs?

@number9dream I think he was confusing them with the uber-Biker Nobz squad

**Sanguine Sympathy**

Well, nobs are expensive.

at 20 points a piece, a squad of 10 with no upgrades is 200 points. That cost more than doubles if you give them ALL pks, but even if you only give 4 of them PKs it is 300 points, before big choppas, 'eavy armor, battlewagon/bikes, etc. etc.

**Eyclonus**

Well don't run 10 then. Try using 6-7, with 2-3 PKs and the rest with big choppas

**starbomber109**

I would recommend only 3 PKs, (also don't forget, the dok has a poisoned weapon, and there's other nice CCWs you can give your squad. Like big choppas (and they come with sluggas for an extra attack)

**Sanguine Sympathy**

Still very expensive, and not nearly as killy as 10.

**starbomber109**

Sanguine Sympathy wrote:Still very expensive, and not nearly as killy as 10.

If your gonna do that best put them all on bikes and have them ride with da boss...

LOL! what is that? 60 power fist attacks?

**Major Malfunction**

Eyclonus wrote:
The Green Git wrote:Nobs squads, properly kitted and with a transport or bikes can easily run 600 points.

Are you talking about giving ALL of them PKs?

No... not all with PKs. Here's how I run a typical Nobz squad and it comes in just south of 600 points:

Nob w/PK and Slugga
Nob w/PK and Slugga and Bosspole
Nob w/PK and Twin Linked Shoota
Nob w/Choppa and Slugga
Nob w/Choppa and Slugga and Bosspole
Nob w/Choppa and Kombi-Skorcha
Nob w/Choppa and Twin Linked Shoota
Nob w/Choppa and Slugga and Waaagh Banna
Painboy

All have 'Eavy Armor and Cybork.
Battlewagon w/2 Big Shoota, Deff Rolla, Red Paint, Grot Rigger, Armor Plates

**deadfish**

I haven't really read other's advice but i can tell you from experience the bikes rock. in 1500pt games they can tear they'r way into the oppositions half of the tble by turn 2 and with twin linked big shootas and decent CC they're almost guarnteed to take out a couple of units of infantry.

Dreads are also well worth the cash - against Tau and other shooty armies tehy can soak up alot of fire giving great cover to mobs of slugga boys coming up behind.

Nobz in wartruks is also worth thinking about - a retinue can be expensive though and if they don't make it into CC quickly wil just be sat taing up gunfire.

Def coptas look good - in support of bikes or anti armour - form 4th edition never underestimate your tight options against armour - power claws, burnas rokkits etc all need you to get relatively close - a boss or nob with a opewer claw in a trukk with a couple of burnas is just as good as any answer combine with tankbustas to get the job done.

But you'll need probably 3 slugga boyz - with a shoota boy squad to make alot of noise as they draw fire from advancing orks.

**starbomber109**

Thing about dreads though is you should get a big mek so it's a troop. When it's not heavy support it's pretty awesome! (you can field the max Kanz/Wagons that you want now, or that boomwagon if you want it) I've heard that lots of people use the dread as primary anti-tank in footslogging lists.

There's an idea I had a while back too.

11 grots can take a runtherd and a trukk...then you can leave the grots with something like a SAG and then have some other unit steal the trukk. (like tankbustas or burnaboyz)

**number9dream**

Grots can't take trukks as dedicated transports ;p

**starbomber109**

number9dream wrote:Grots can't take trukks as dedicated transports ;p

...are you sure? I thought they could...I'll have to look this up.

Edit: FRAGGIN' MORK THEY CAN'T!

**Norwulf**

remembah da first rule of orkz iz: boyz before toyz, at 6pts a pop you cant go wrong!
also ive had really good results from deffkoptas, they never last long but you can get rid of problem tanks and special characters really quickly, and they distract shooting from your boyz.
i hope boomwagons are better than ive been hearing, i just spent a week lovingly maKING ONE

**number9dream**

starbomber109 wrote:
number9dream wrote:Grots can't take trukks as dedicated transports ;p

...are you sure? I thought they could...I'll have to look this up.

Edit: FRAGGIN' MORK THEY CAN'T!

I checked to be sure as well, it would have been nice indeed.

**Eyclonus**

Norwulf wrote: i hope boomwagons are better than ive been hearing, i just spent a week lovingly maKING ONE

I apologise for the massively condescending tone, but just compare the stat entries for Boom Wagons and Battle Wagons.

Battle Wagons win out so much. Especially because the Looted vehicles have that ass-pain of a rule that makes them drive up right next a squad of firedragons.
If you could field them as squadrons; yes, they would be good and would be a competitive choice, but unfortunately their going to be sitting next to the Flash Gitz for the time being.