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What does Brother-Captain Stern's "Strands of Fate" rule do, exactly? It allows him to re-roll any roll, but is it an army-wide benefit, or a personal one? The wording on this one is much more vague than even the recent "all or nothing" debate about vehicles firing. The way the ability mirrors itself implies it should be an army-wide benefit, but this is not specifically stated. So, RaW or otherwise, what is going on here?

It is important to note that while Captain Stern is currently deemed one of if not the worst special character in any current codex, this distinction has major implications depending on the discussion's general consensus. I look forward to seeing lines drawn in the sand around one of the most esoteric and vaguely written artifacts GW has yet produced (not to mention, "dice"?).

Here, for your discussion, is the rule:

"The Strands of Fate: Although Stern's prodigious abilities allow him to achieve feats of true heroism, his nemesis M'Kachen does everything in his power to bring about his downfall and the ruin of Stern's allies. Brother-Captain Stern may re-roll one dice per phase, although he must accept the result of the second roll. Keep track of the number of times Stern uses this ability in a given player turn. His opponent may subsequently re-roll one of his own units' dice rolls per use of this ability, regardless of the situation. Any re-rolls garnered in this way that are not utilized by the end of the player turn are lost."

Kitzz wrote:What does Brother-Captain Stern's "Strands of Fate" rule do, exactly? It allows him to re-roll any roll, but is it an army-wide benefit, or a personal one? The wording on this one is much more vague than even the recent "all or nothing" debate about vehicles firing. The way the ability mirrors itself implies it should be an army-wide benefit, but this is not specifically stated. So, RaW or otherwise, what is going on here?

It is important to note that while Captain Stern is currently deemed one of if not the worst special character in any current codex, this distinction has major implications depending on the discussion's general consensus. I look forward to seeing lines drawn in the sand around one of the most esoteric and vaguely written artifacts GW has yet produced (not to mention, dice?).

Here, for your discussion, is the rule:

"The Strands of Fate: Although Stern's prodigious abilities allow him to achieve feats of true heroism, his nemesis M'Kachen does everything in his power to bring about his downfall and the ruin of Stern's allies. Brother-Captain Stern may re-roll one dice per phase, although he must accept the result of the second roll. Keep track of the number of times Stern uses this ability in a given player turn. His opponent may subsequently re-roll one of his own units' dice rolls per use of this ability, regardless of the situation. Any re-rolls garnered in this way that are not utilized by the end of the player turn are lost."

Seems to me, Stern gets it, personally, once per phase. You get one, your opponent gets one for any one of his units. You get one, your opponent gets one. The way it reads, Stern gets it, not "the player".

The question is more along the lines of what his re-roll can affect. Sure, he's the one doing it, but can he cause others to re-roll by messing with the strands of fate?

Kitzz wrote:The question is more along the lines of what his re-roll can affect. Sure, he's the one doing it, but can he cause others to re-roll by messing with the strands of fate?

I'd say anything that classifies as a die can be rerolled. Maybe I need an example. It seems as though you continue to play as if he had made the roll. It doesn't seem to be that you choose to make a re-roll at the end of the phase, so when you re-roll your die, you may affect others or not. I don't think I'm finding the trouble.

Kitzz wrote:The question is more along the lines of what his re-roll can affect. Sure, he's the one doing it, but can he cause others to re-roll by messing with the strands of fate?

Since it talks about him specifically, I would say Stern can re-roll any roll that uses a function of his stats/rules - i.e. his own attack rolls, his own armour save, leadership tests taken on his own leadership (even for the squad he's attached to) and so on.

It says he re-rolls it, but it is a special ability with a very esoteric context. What I'm saying is that it can be read to say "he re-rolls one die per phase from any of your army's rolling" rather than "he re-rolls his own attacks/saves/etc."

Kitzz wrote:It says he re-rolls it, but it is a special ability with a very esoteric context. What I'm saying is that it can be read to say "he re-rolls one die per phase from any of your army's rolling" rather than "he re-rolls his own attacks/saves/etc."

Mmm, I think that's reading a bit much into it. What I get out of it is that Stern can roll a roll for himself. (After all, he's not on the battlefield, rolling dice). I think the context is saying that "he" can reroll a dice. As in, he's the one that can do it.

The fact that it says dice allows you to reroll one roll of the dice. So you roll a leadership and fail - you re-roll the dice.

Example:
Movement Phase - Difficult Terrain Test Roll 2D6 and take the highest. You roll snake eyes (two 1's). You can re-roll the dice. Your opponent gains 1 reroll in the movement phase for any of his units (dangerous terrain, difficult terrain).

Now my question is do you always reroll ALL of the dice or do you jsut reroll a single die? When shooting his storm bolter Stern fires 2 shots. Does he reroll both shots or only a single die?

Wow, that's really vague.

I would agree that it is Stern's dice that are re-rolled. This is echoed in the opponent re-rolling "one of his own unit's dice rolls".

But that sucks lots of ass. Stern gets a slight buff and your opponent gets rerolls to use on anything. The opponent isn't limited by one re-roll per phase either - he can use them all in combat or shooting or whatever.

I would house rule that so that it's an army wide ability and the opponent is limited to one re-roll per phase also. As it is it's better for the opponent than for Stern!

rogueeyes wrote:The fact that it says dice allows you to reroll one roll of the dice. So you roll a leadership and fail - you re-roll the dice.

Example:
Movement Phase - Difficult Terrain Test Roll 2D6 and take the highest. You roll snake eyes (two 1's). You can re-roll the dice. Your opponent gains 1 reroll in the movement phase for any of his units (dangerous terrain, difficult terrain).

Now my question is do you always reroll ALL of the dice or do you jsut reroll a single die? When shooting his storm bolter Stern fires 2 shots. Does he reroll both shots or only a single die?

1) The opponent gets a re-roll useable for the rest of the player turn. If Stern uses it 3 times, once in each phase, the opponent can use 1 in each phase, 2 in shooting 1 in assault or all 3 in assault if he wants.
2) For shooting, you get to re-roll one dice. For things like Scatter or Leadership you re-roll both

That rule basically takes a bad special character, and makes him into a horrible one. Great model, sucky rules. I use him as a GKH, and skip his own rules. Tough enough playing with an all GK army, without giving your opponent those re-rolls on anything.

After checking my codex it says "one dice roll per phase". This makes me think that it would be all of the dice. So if you reroll to hit all dice to hit are rerolled. If you are using it in assault you would re-roll all attacks by Stern.

Are you able to use it for armor saves that Stern must take? This would be in the opponents phase. This would mean that the opponent would get to re-roll an armor save in your shooting phase. This just gets confusing and a good memory is needed to keep track of those rerolls.

I disagree that Stern is weak. I always found him to be exceedingly useful, mainly because of that re-rolll.

Holding him in reserve? Re-roll the reserve roll (which means re-rolling the reserve roll for the Terminators and Land Raider they're riding in.

Shooting phase is much less useful, but the assault phase got good use of it as well.

It could be used in the opponent's turn as well.

And while I always made sure to tell my opponents that they got a re-roll when I used his ability...reminding them of that in their turn wasn't my job.

Stern is 4 points less than a Grand Master, he gets one less wound and his profile is worse, but he gets special abilities (albeit not that usful ones). I say he is bad for the points, but not weak.

he also gets 40 points of wargear for free.... its not that bad of a deal. especially because of the retinue rule with terminators. take a large squad of terminators, and you don't have to allocate wounds to him.

The best thing about Stern is that he gives you, in combination with a Grand Master, a 2nd S6 Force Weapon.