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So after a year of playing CSM i think i've finally set my mind on a list that i like and will play consistantly. I'm posting it up here in an effort to hear everyone's thoughts about it's weaknesses and what your input is, what i should fix, etc. Please feel free to say whatever, well, almost whatever.

Slaanesh Daemon Prince with Wings and Lash of Submission

Nurgle Daemon Prince with Wings and Warptime

8 Noise Marines with Sonic Blasters, Champion with Power Weapon and Doom Siren in Rhino

10 Plague Marines with 2 Melta Guns, Champion with Power Fist in Rhino

10 Khorne Bezerkers with 2 Plasma Pistols, Champion with Power Weapon in Land Raider with Extra Armor

5 Havocs with 4 Melta Guns in Rhino

2 Obliterators


Thanks all

I would drop warptime. Its a big chunk of points and it isnt going to make or break killing a unit.

Than what do you suggest I put in instead?

PanamaG wrote:I would drop warptime. Its a big chunk of points and it isnt going to make or break killing a unit.

Warptime is easily the best 25 points you can spend. It makes the DP a complete beast against everything.

Or it would mean more upgrades that would have use somewhere else. What is Warptime going to make a difference agaisnt?

To noobs it looks awesome but then they learn mathhammer and the way the turns go.

You sound like someone who lurks in forums and doesn't actually play. Warptime basically makes sure that number of attacks = number of dead opponents each turn. It is a huge advantage.

What other upgrade could he add that would be better than warptime?

Nah I play a LOT and CSM is my #1 army.

Im not doubting that you will kill a number of enemies = attacks man, Im saying it isnt points effecient. That is what I meant by some people just get it and others don't. That spent 25 points isnt going to KO something, youre still going to be stuck in combat so why bother? CSM is a book that is best when stripped to its most potent, and warptime, like all the other powers besides lash, are just unnecessary add ons.

Daemon Princes look ok.

Noise marines: a bit too much bling on them.
Plague marines look ok.
Zerkers: no need for plasma pistols, a power fist is better for an offensive squad like them.

Oblits are fine.
Havocs are meh. Min sized/2 kill ‘soft’ kill points.

As to Warp Time, I don't usually get any powers for my Daemon Princes, but that's because I only use them as distraction and hence: expendable. 'Chrono' Princes are great beat sticks.
They get you 4 kills when you need it where you need, and you pay for that almost certainty.

My 7 Cents.

PanamaG wrote:Or it would mean more upgrades that would have use somewhere else. What is Warptime going to make a difference agaisnt?

To noobs it looks awesome but then they learn mathhammer and the way the turns go.

Funny you are one to call people "noobs" yet clearly you dont know how the game works.

Warptime is the best 25 point upgrade you can buy in the entire book. It ensures you killing those marines, or laying some damage on a MC. Each kill you get is +1 to your side of combat, and seeing as how youre going to get 4-5 kills (maybe take 1 or 2 back) youre still get their leadership test down to 7 or below (the crucial point where the odds are in your favour). Ofcourse, more kills also means less attacks coming back at you.

It also helps tremendously when you send him after a tank thats moved more than 6". Hitting on 6s doesnt seem so bad when you essentially get 10 tries to do it.

If you dont want to overkill a squad and stay in combat, simply dont cast it. However, you can then cast it in your opponents turn to ensure getting out of that combat.

25 points is nothing for what it can do.

Night Lords wrote:

Funny you are one to call people "noobs" yet clearly you dont know how the game works.

Night Lords wrote:

Warptime is the best 25 point upgrade you can buy in the entire book.

Lash?

Proves the point.

That proves what? You have to turn to a spell that everyone can easily counter now?

Warptime isnt restrictive to who it can affect. Considering 5th edition is all about mech (which lash does nothing to), Ill take a T6 warptime prince over a T5 lash prince that dies to bolter fire.

Ok forget it there is no point to this if you think warptime is better than lash.

PanamaG wrote:Ok forget it there is no point to this if you think warptime is better than lash.

Demon Princes are best in assault and Warptime makes them even more effective in close combat versus vehicles and independant characters. Lash is good but it wastes the DPs potential turning a pure assault character into a wannabe shooty MC.

I generaly use my DPs against vehicles, IC and other big threats as well as a giant target so my other stuff with survive turn 2, 3 against shooty armies.

Since i am now well educated on the ineffective and effectiveness of Warptime are there any other suggestions. In my last game I took out my opponents 10 man honor guard in 2 turns and then spent 2 turns killing Pedro, which in my opinion was well worth the points to tie up that squad for that long. anyways...

And thank you Sanctjud. To counter your questions with some more of my own. Idk if I like a PF on my KB Champ, thats why i added the Plas Pistols, that way i get at least one kill in the shooting phase, plus then when i charge i get 5 PW attacks. I do suppose that 10 extra points is worth the 2+ to wound rolls.

Also as a note on the havoc squad, they pretty much tag along with a troop squad to crack open transports, usually the NM or KB. Or should i just invest in Chosen with the same thing?

Also how should i re-equip my NM?

Thanks to all. If you could keep this productive and someone tell me what i should use instead of Warptime?

This is how I usually see zerkers:
Counter attack 8 man squads: Power weapon.
Main Assault 10 man squads: Power fist.

The reason I would choose a power fist is that as a main assaulter, coming out of a land raider they will most likely be in combat ALOT, and in the heart of the enemy army.

You want a special weapons that can take on ANYTHING in the 40K universe.
Let me repeat myself, the power fist (esp. on a zerker that hits more and harder with more attacks) CAN KILL ANYTHING in 40K.

And that's what you really want in a main assaulter.
Sure you want to avoid dreads, but that doesn't mean the opponent is trying everything to lock that same zerker squad up.

With a fist you can assault ramp charge a variety of targets in a combo charge, fist on tanks/dreads, others on an infantry unit and kill them all in one blow.

Why let the dread or whatever equivalent walk through the zerkers after they charge?

Basically, I'm a risk averse player and a player that banks on all-comer approaches.

Re: Plasma pistols: horrible cost.
Even though it's their ownly option, it is that bad. Shooting is not something good for zerkers, with:
-Combat Tactics.
-Failed Morale.
-Removing models from front rank.

Very bad things to happen from shooting casualties for the zerkers, it sounds counter intuitive, but shooting is only good if you are likely to do nothing for zerkers...plasma 'can' do something, but at a crazy cost and prob. does too well.

__________________-

Daemon Princes / Warp time.
What do you want to do with your Daemon princes?
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Havocs: /shrug...MSU works, but again, I like to keep kill points at the back of my mind. The variety of meltas is good, but lets say you dropped warp time or lash or both and some sonics....drop 2/4 melta guns, you could get a Troop CSM squad in a rhino instead.

Adds more bodies, you still get some special weapons.

My 7 Cents.

I'll try droping the Havocs for a regular CSM w/ 2 Meltas. And I'll def take a PF on the KB. As far as the Warptime goes, i think I was just going HG hunting with him, which has worked thus far. Any other sugestions as far as HQ hunting goes, meaning should i take a different thing instead of Warptime to do the job.