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HQ:
Wolf Lord
w/ Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield, Thunderwolf, Wolf Tail Talisman, Saga of the Bear
[210]

Troops:
(10) Grey Hunters
w/ 2x Meltaguns, Power Fist
Rhino
[215]

(10) Grey Hunters
w/ 2x Meltaguns, Power Fist
Rhino
[215]

(10) Grey Hunters
w/ 2x Meltaguns, Power Fist
Rhino
[215]

Fast Attack:
(3) Thunderwolf Cavalry [Wolf Lord]
- Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield
- Mark of the Wulfen
- Normal
[185]

Heavy:
(5) Long Fangs
w/ 2x Lascannon, 2x Missile Launchers
[145]

(5) Long Fangs
w/ 2x Lascannon, 2x Missile Launchers
[145]

(6) Long Fangs
w/ 2x Lascannons, 3x Missile Launchers
[170]

[1500]

Spent a while exploring the new Codex today and tried to find a few army lists that would be good. With this list, the Long Fangs take cover and throw down long-range firepower while the Grey Hunters advance onto objectives. The Wolf Lord and the trio of Thunderwolf Cavalry are meant as a bluff tool, but also look rather solid in combat. Each is unique, so I can utilize wound allocation and with the Wolf Lord, I have two 3+ invulns I can use as well as their 5 toughness to make them pretty hard. The Long Fangs can toss out a pair of Lascannon shots at AV13+, while the MLs go for anything AV12 or less. I will be sitting down with the Codex again tomorrow and will get a few more opinions, but I really wanted to see what the online community thinks of this route.

I'm amused you're posting lists for a book that isn't out yet.

I've always been skeptical of the small squad longfangs. One well-placed battlecannon shot, and they might flee the table. 5-6 Man seems so fragile when you're all models with a purpose (special wep, or divide fire rule).

This seems fairly bland for wolves. It's only a slight deviation from what can be done in codex CSM. I'd reccomend tossing in more goofy awesome stuff like the Thunderwolves. For the first few weeks/month of a codex, people have no idea what to do anyway, so have some fun and use the sillyer more fun options first, then revert to surefire and powerfull later once the dust settles.

Just my veiw...

The book is out, though. Anyone can get a preview copy as I did and just spend a few hours reading. Also, Long Fangs cannot be larger than that, so its not like I can increase them to prevent the problem. However, with them in cover, a single Battlecannon shot is not going to do that much, especially if they don't bunch them together begging for a fat plate to hit them.

Also, I am not worried about bland. The models are beautiful and the "fun" unit is there, if only in a limited number (Thunderwolves). Otherwise, I like efficiency and potency.

Alternative:
HQ:
Wolf Guard Battle Leader
w/ Frost Axe, Storm Shield, Thunderwolf
[170]

Troops:
(9) Grey Hunters
w/ Meltagun, Power Fist
Wolf Guard w/ Frost Blade
Rhino
[238]

(9) Grey Hunters
w/ Meltagun, Power Fist
Wolf Guard w/ Frost Blade
Rhino
[238]

(9) Grey Hunters
w/ Meltagun, Power Fist
Wolf Guard w/ Frost Blade
Rhino
[238]

Fast Attack:
(3) Thunderwolf Cavalry [WGBL]
- Storm Shield, Power Weapon
- Mark of the Wulfen
- Frost Blade
[325]

Heavy:
(5) Long Fangs
w/ 2x Lascannons, 2x Missile Launchers
[145]

(5) Long Fangs
w/ 2x Lascannons, 2x Missile Launchers
[145]

[1499]

Yeah the book is out but not everyone has the chance or time to sit and down and nut over the tactics and choices of your list?

It seems strange that you ask for online advice when really no-one but red shirts have had a really decent chance to nut over army selection choices.

The only thing i would be really concerned about in your list would be the Thunderwolf cav, they are the only things with limited movement in your list, unless you will be screening with your rhinos which could affect your tactics, i see your TWC being shot to pieces just because they are different.

Otherwise seems a pretty solid list, although i kinda feel your a bit short on pressure applying units, landspeeders or swift/sky claws could be a nice piece to apply some early pressure.

My FLGS got their copy Thursday and I have spent the last three days there, playing and reading. I may not be the norm, but everyone near a shop tends to have a preview copy. I sat down and wrote up notes and lists, too, so that helps.

Anyhow, the Thunderwolf Cavalry has an effective assault range of 19-24", depending on fleet. That is pretty mobile, I think. Having two 3+ invulns in the unit and base toughness 5 makes hurting them hard. Wound allocation is nice, too.

I just hope the rumor that Forgeworld is making the models for them isn't true, or I will be very broke in the near future.

Anyhow, the Thunderwolf Cavalry has an effective assault range of 19-24", depending on fleet. That is pretty mobile, I think. Having two 3+ invulns in the unit and base toughness 5 makes hurting them hard. Wound allocation is nice, too.

Don't overestimate these suckers.
Small arms' fire kill them
I'd be more afraid of Bloodcrushers.

The new SW lists posted so far were rather mono-dimensional:

HQ
Grey Hunters in Rhinos
TW Cavalry
Long Fangs (optional)

Small arms fire? Base toughness 5, 3+ armor, a few 3+ invulns, and a huge area of effect. These should have a similar effect as Bloodcrushers, with less invulns, but a greater range.

Also, I hate to say it, but "one-dimensional" often works. Spamming awesome units isn't a bad idea.

As for the above list, I have an error in the Cavalry. Need to drop that Power Weapon. I can then put a Wolf tail talisman on the WGBL, leaving me a few points to tinker with.

em_en_oh_pee wrote:Small arms fire? Base toughness 5, 3+ armor, a few 3+ invulns, and a huge area of effect. These should have a similar effect as Bloodcrushers, with less invulns, but a greater range.

Also, I hate to say it, but "one-dimensional" often works. Spamming awesome units isn't a bad idea.

Well, if the unit has wiped out an enemy unit and will get shot in the opponent's turn.

You are right about one-dimensional armies.
But I thought that the new SW codex would offer a greater variety to choose from.

there's also the fact that you can spam 5 LR's in 1750 points with the new SW codex.

Does each thunder wolf have two wounds? Even with this, you have a unit that dies in close combat to more close combat oriented units (i.e. genestealers, wyches, orks, etc) as all the attacks that ignore armor saves are coming in at initiative 1. Sad Christmas. The long fangs are a fragile five man unit, we've seen how low model count, one wound units fare in the past (command squads, tyranid warriors, small stands of devastators/havocs) and they generally fail. Long fangs are a little more useful in that they can divide fire (and be made relentless with grimmar) but this doesn't make up for the fact that you're losing an awful lot of points every time a guy with T4 and a Sv of 3+ falls down in addition to the effectiveness of the squad plummeting. I'd give two of them plasma cannons, three of the multi-meltas, stick grimmar in there and drop-pod away, then one of your style long fangs, then a land raider.

It's beginning to look, what with all the melta spamming, that torrent of fire armies should start coming into their own on the tourney scene.

Im not trying to be a jerk here but I thought the premise of the wolves was that they were an army of individuals. Each charachter unique to the others. Each man trying to set himself from the pack. I understand you may believe your list is the most competetive that you can get but if there was a sportsman score for designing an army that is true to the fluff I would have to give you a 0.

I am no 40k expert, but I think the cookie cutter lists are the wrong way to go with this game. Now I understand some codex's have few good choices in certain slots. Chaos marines for example; in the heavy slot Oblits are the best so people spam them. With this new codex and Phill Kelly (probably the best codex writer GW has) writing it I cant imagine the cookie cutter route is the way to go. There are lots of good builds possible with this new codex. I have put together a few lists and no two have been even close. I dont mean to crap on your list but I dont think you should paint yourself in a box when designing lists, especially not from this codex my lord. This thing stinks with variety. I think GW wanted Phil to design an army to try and stop the cookie cutter lists.

This seems very similar to ork and Eldar builds, no two should be alike, everyone has an opinion on what is best but none are exactly the same. Chaos Marine Codex easy- most builds are Lash, Lash, Berserk, reg. marines, plaugemarines, termy, termy, oblit. oblit. Now add a few rhinos and occasionaly some defilers but most lists look very similar to this. Ork armies can foot slog with mobs of 30, go battlewagon or truck heavy, get mobs of nobs or nob bikers, Gazz- Snikrot combos, Nothing has proven to be the most effective and that is why Phil writes the best codexs. Sorry to rant so much but I want players to look into these codexs and put together some unique armies that fit their playstyle. Not just do the math and say this is most effective, SPAM SPAM SPAM. I think it hurts the game and the player playing the army. Spaming works when you are new to the game but I think the better players around the world build balanced lists with a unique flavor all their own. Maybe Im just jealous because I have Necrons and I would love to have a codex as varied as the wolves. Hell, other than disruption fields I cant even change the armament on anything except lords.

Slackermagee wrote:Does each thunder wolf have two wounds? Even with this, you have a unit that dies in close combat to more close combat oriented units (i.e. genestealers, wyches, orks, etc) as all the attacks that ignore armor saves are coming in at initiative 1. Sad Christmas. The long fangs are a fragile five man unit, we've seen how low model count, one wound units fare in the past (command squads, tyranid warriors, small stands of devastators/havocs) and they generally fail. Long fangs are a little more useful in that they can divide fire (and be made relentless with grimmar) but this doesn't make up for the fact that you're losing an awful lot of points every time a guy with T4 and a Sv of 3+ falls down in addition to the effectiveness of the squad plummeting. I'd give two of them plasma cannons, three of the multi-meltas, stick grimmar in there and drop-pod away, then one of your style long fangs, then a land raider.

It's beginning to look, what with all the melta spamming, that torrent of fire armies should start coming into their own on the tourney scene.

Well, they mostly strike at initiative, except for a Thunder Hammer. Base toughness 5 with 2 wounds and all unique is pretty good. They can also really dictate where and when, given their 19-24" assault movement.

The Grimnar Relentless trick was something I thought up the first time I saw that rule, but that is way, way too gimmicky. It is a unit that will not live beyond the turn it hits, stranding Grimnar. I am not a fan of that tactic, though it is pretty nasty.

As for the Land Raider spam comment, that is true. It is obnoxious. Grimnar and a few bare bones squads of Wolf Guard in dedicated and heavy Land Raiders is brutal. Of course, with the excess of Melta, it might not be worthwhile when they all go boom.

I think Thunderwolf Cavalry will be a very strong unit. Unique, multi-wound models with huge range and assault potential can't go too wrong. They cost more than Termies, but don't need a Land Raider to be effective, so it balances out in most regards. At 2,000+, I am thinking of two TWolf units and a pair of TWolf Lords to act as my main assault force, with mobs of GHs in Rhinos.

Anyhow, I am tossing around another option, which is radically different than my current mostly-Mech lists. 15-man Blood Claw units with a Wolf Guard in multiples slogging it with Njal at the front giving them a 5+ cover. Spread them out and they should be able to get there, though I am going to test this before I commit too much. With Meltas being everywhere, that really minimizes their effect, when the most they can do is force a 5+ on a single model. To augment this, Wolf Scouts coming in on their board edge would apply a nice bit of pressure, like Kommandos do.

Norbu the Destroyer wrote:Im not trying to be a jerk here but I thought the premise of the wolves was that they were an army of individuals. Each charachter unique to the others. Each man trying to set himself from the pack. I understand you may believe your list is the most competetive that you can get but if there was a sportsman score for designing an army that is true to the fluff I would have to give you a 0.

I am no 40k expert, but I think the cookie cutter lists are the wrong way to go with this game. Now I understand some codex's have few good choices in certain slots. Chaos marines for example; in the heavy slot Oblits are the best so people spam them. With this new codex and Phill Kelly (probably the best codex writer GW has) writing it I cant imagine the cookie cutter route is the way to go. There are lots of good builds possible with this new codex. I have put together a few lists and no two have been even close. I dont mean to crap on your list but I dont think you should paint yourself in a box when designing lists, especially not from this codex my lord. This thing stinks with variety. I think GW wanted Phil to design an army to try and stop the cookie cutter lists.

This seems very similar to ork and Eldar builds, no two should be alike, everyone has an opinion on what is best but none are exactly the same. Chaos Marine Codex easy- most builds are Lash, Lash, Berserk, reg. marines, plaugemarines, termy, termy, oblit. oblit. Now add a few rhinos and occasionaly some defilers but most lists look very similar to this. Ork armies can foot slog with mobs of 30, go battlewagon or truck heavy, get mobs of nobs or nob bikers, Gazz- Snikrot combos, Nothing has proven to be the most effective and that is why Phil writes the best codexs. Sorry to rant so much but I want players to look into these codexs and put together some unique armies that fit their playstyle. Not just do the math and say this is most effective, SPAM SPAM SPAM. I think it hurts the game and the player playing the army. Spaming works when you are new to the game but I think the better players around the world build balanced lists with a unique flavor all their own. Maybe Im just jealous because I have Necrons and I would love to have a codex as varied as the wolves. Hell, other than disruption fields I cant even change the armament on anything except lords.

This is all unnecessary. I understand your point but its so long and said the same thing and then went on about Phil Kelley. Just saying we don't need to know about the Chaos codex in a SW thread.

(don't mean to insult you it was just kinda OOP)

To summarize for people who didn't read it:

SW are very unique, this army is a bit of spam I recommend for you to have more fun with it and make it more your own instead of a spam. Spam is boring.

The one thing I actually don't like about the list is the Long Fangs. They just seem a bit... unnecessary I think. With the meltas and the TW I think you'll be fine on all that anti-light armor. idk.

I think your main problem is that the Thunderwolf are your only real fast assault unit. Your GH will have to disembark and wait a turn before assaulting so they will have to be stuck in the open to just make sure to maybe rhino rush so that your enemy can't pick off your squad.

HQ:
Wolf Guard Battle Leader
w/ Frost Blade, Storm Shield, Thunderwolf, Wolf tail talisman
[175]

Wolf Guard Battle Leader
w/ Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield, Thunderwolf, Wolf tail talisman
[180]

Troops:
(9) Grey Hunters
w/ Meltagun, Power Weapon
Wolf Guard w/ Thunder Hammer, Combi-Flamer (or Melta?)
Rhino
[238]

(9) Grey Hunters
w/ Meltagun, Power Weapon
Wolf Guard w/ Thunder Hammer, Combi-Flamer (or Melta?)
Rhino
[238]

(9) Grey Hunters
w/ Meltagun, Power Weapon
Wolf Guard w/ Thunder Hammer, Combi-Flamer (or Melta?)
Rhino
[238]

Fast Attack:
(3) Thunderwolf Cavalry
- Storm Shield
- Mark of the Wulfen
- Thunder Hammer
[215]

(3) Thunderwolf Cavalry
- Storm Shield
- Mark of the Wulfen
- Thunder Hammer
[215]

[1499]

So, this is just another direction. Not really sure if it would work or not. Attach a WGBL to each TWolf unit and use them to smash face, while the Rhinos rush forward and take objectives. Simple, but a very narrow approach to playing. Of course, sometimes simplicity is very useful. I did revised my Grey Hunter weapons, so that now I get a nasty trio of Thunder Hammer hits on the charge from the Wolf Guard, while the Power Weapon is in the hands of the Grey Hunters. The other way I had it, I did not get in enough PFist attacks off the GH, which was a problem.

Thoughts?

I like both lists

The pimped up LF in the first list would be a real headache for other mech lists

Kill points might be worth thinking about ie 3 thunderwolf cav - yep get their great (not read the codex yet) however counterassaults from mobz? Also at 215 per 3..

The TWolf Cavalry are going to get off about 5 attacks on the charge. The WGBL will put down about that many as well. Remember, TWolf Cavalry are base toughness 5, too. I figure they can collide with a Mob and get out of it with a few wounds.

In my latest version, I am running a pair of Fenrisian Wolves with my WGBL, which means I have two ablative wounds as well as a few extra attacks. The unit can take roughly six wounds and only lose the Wolves and none of its Cavalry, which is pretty handy.

The second list looks better than the first.
Two units of TW's supported by HQ's are scary.

The only downside is the lack of fire support.

Wow, it's it great to have a GW store nearby so you can say "it's out, go and look at the preview copy".

Alas, I can only work on what I've read on the forums about it.
________________

The most recent list:

3 Troops is nice at 1500.
I'd suggest a the combi-melta to get a 2 shotter.
I don't think hordes will be too much of a problem with bolter/bolt pistolCCW/Counter Charge.

Power weapon and WGL with TH, seems like a lot of power weapons in the squad.

3 Rhinos is both decent and somewhat lacking at 1500, but you do have target saturation of the big burly wolves.
Speaking of wolves, even with their impressive defensive stats, it seems 3 a squad + IC is small and easily focused fired upon.

On a side note, some may be irked at the cookie-cutterness.

My 7 Cents.

Don't had the chance to look at the codex yet, but just thought about one thing...about 200 points for three thunder wolves? Seems an awful lot of points, even for T5 with 2 wounds and their great range.

I'd fear demolisher cannons. One shot will be able to cover all three models, one good hit and... However, everything dies to S10 AP2 plates, but this unit with its high points-per-model seems especially vulnerable to one big bang.

Orbital bonbaonbardlement would be mean, too.

em_en_oh_pee wrote:The TWolf Cavalry are going to get off about 5 attacks on the charge. The WGBL will put down about that many as well. Remember, TWolf Cavalry are base toughness 5, too. I figure they can collide with a Mob and get out of it with a few wounds.

In my latest version, I am running a pair of Fenrisian Wolves with my WGBL, which means I have two ablative wounds as well as a few extra attacks. The unit can take roughly six wounds and only lose the Wolves and none of its Cavalry, which is pretty handy.

I belive the wolves count as a retinue for the WGBL which means he cannot join the TW squad until the wolves are dead.

Sushicaddy wrote:

em_en_oh_pee wrote:The TWolf Cavalry are going to get off about 5 attacks on the charge. The WGBL will put down about that many as well. Remember, TWolf Cavalry are base toughness 5, too. I figure they can collide with a Mob and get out of it with a few wounds.

In my latest version, I am running a pair of Fenrisian Wolves with my WGBL, which means I have two ablative wounds as well as a few extra attacks. The unit can take roughly six wounds and only lose the Wolves and none of its Cavalry, which is pretty handy.

I belive the wolves count as a retinue for the WGBL which means he cannot join the TW squad until the wolves are dead.

The Wolves are basically wargear, from what I see, as it doesn't call them a retinue nor does it treat them as other Codexes do for retinues.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Witzkatz wrote:Don't had the chance to look at the codex yet, but just thought about one thing...about 200 points for three thunder wolves? Seems an awful lot of points, even for T5 with 2 wounds and their great range.

I'd fear demolisher cannons. One shot will be able to cover all three models, one good hit and... However, everything dies to S10 AP2 plates, but this unit with its high points-per-model seems especially vulnerable to one big bang.

Orbital bonbaonbardlement would be mean, too.

As I say, only an idiot leaves themselves open to stuff like that. How hard is it to find cover? Demolisher Cannons are short-range, anyhow. Also, I would have two invulns and two ablative wounds on the unit, so I can afford a few hits before I lose anything, even to something as nasty as a Demolisher Cannon. I have played Nob Bikers, so I know that spacing the unit properly can be useful. At most, they will hit two of my Wolves (if it doesn't scatter too much to their favor).

@Sanctjud
My local hobby shop got a copy. To be honest, I don't know if there is even a GW shop in my State (NC). So, unless you live at nowhere near a basic hobby shop that is a licensed GW dealer, you should have a copy to look at (as well as sprues/models to look at!). As for "cookie cutter", no one in my shop would cry about it. We aren't petty about things like that, especially since they would be different looking via modelling and painting. Also, the list in thread is not my latest. Sadly, that is in another thread.