Wow, Dark Eldar are Awesome.

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**Canonness Rory**

I finally decided to pick up and read the Dark Eldar codex.

While some of their rules are outdated, some of them are crazy overpowereed. Like grotesques. The Dark Eldar Feel No Pain is FREAKING INSANE. I don't know how you would go about killing 10 of these crazy bastards.
For the uninitiated:
Dark Eldar Feel No Pain: Weapons that don't cause instant death are ignored.

Re-read that.
It means they are pretty much immune to shooting. You need a plasma cannon to take any of these guys out!

I think I might start up a DE army...

What are popular DE builds?

**kuro_khan**

Yes... grotesques are uber powerful, and dark eldar players regularly take 3 full squads of them...

So much better than wyches:

Who needs shooting?
Being required to take an IC to lead them isn't an issue at all
Saving throws in CC are overrated

------------------------------

But more seriously,

I don't use grotesques, and I don't know anyone that does. Wyches are the only elites worth using, IMO, and I use as many of them as I have points to spare.

**willydstyle**

Don't forget that the grotesques FNP does not work in CC... and they have no ranged attacks...

Like many other codices, the DE's power relies on their more basic choices: warriors, raiders, wyches, ravagers.

None of them do anything exceptional, but they are very points-efficient.

**Canonness Rory**

I'm not saying they're super-awesome, I am saying their rules are!

**Reecius**

Grotesques suck, bro. They were good in 3rd ed.

Wyches took a swift kick to the nuts too as they can;t stay in combat anymore where they need to survive. Now they charge one thing, kill it, then die.

The sweet spot for DE this edition, IMO, are the 10 man warrior squads with 2 DL's. For 100 points that is 2 BS4 lance weapons. That is sweet.

Also, their skimmers are potent vehicle killers too, and fast, just really really fragile. Incubus with a Darchon or Archon is brutal still, as they have always been.

DE are a tough army still, not as good as last edition IMO, but still able to bring some pain. They can kill vehicles very well, which is a big plus in 5th ed.

**Iago**

De have some good options and some very-very bad options. Grotesques are a "meh" option IMO... there are so many S6 weapons out there that they unit will die rather quickly.

I can see them working, and if they every actually win a combat then they just set themselves up for getting shot... they are mainly used to keep a character alive long enough to deliver a WWP... but now a days the WWP army is not as good as it used to be.

**HolyCause**

Looking at their codex, it seems that they have a hard time punching through AV14. Monoliths seem to cause a bit of a problem for them - Talos could do it if he gets some really lucky die rolls (minimum 3 attacks if he gets a six for armour penetration) and even gets near the monolith in the first place.

**willydstyle**

They have a hard time punching through the monolith... or BT land raiders with blessed hull... but despite the fact that a single dark lance shot is pretty lackluster, they can field them in such volumes that most AV 14 hulls cry.

**HolyCause**

This is true, but I think the monolith cannot be glanced to death since the Power Matrix technically counts as a weapon but cannot be destroyed.

**willydstyle**

That's why I said "most". Monoliths have absolutely no fear of dark lances. I would assume that a DE player would simply do his best to kill all the rest of the Necron Player's stuff.

**HolyCause**

Heh heh, okay, I kinda skipped over that word

**jsullivanlaw**

The basic warrior/raider and the lords with incubi are the only thing i use out of the codex. Wyches go down faster than guardsman to shooting and a flame thrower will ruin their day. In order to use wyches you gotta try not to kill the unit you assault until the right time, which is easier said than done. Warriors are just awesome at 8 points each. As many skimmers as possible and 3 ravagers are awesome as well. Everything else is garbage.

**Black Blow Fly**

I think dark eldar took a hit in 5th edition. Their skimmers give up easy kill points and are easy to target with TLOS. As has been pointed out wyches aren't as good in close combat. Still some people are doing very well with them. I think it takes a lot of experience to make them work now and they are always a lot of fun. Mostly I like their background, they are actually the true eldar. The only ones that survived the great fall brought about by the birth of She Who Thirsts were out on party cruises elsewhere in the galaxy. There codex reflects that very well.

G

**Spellbound**

Everyone I see that plays DE never goes without a 4+ cover save.

"Oh, well, see, all those spikes and vanes are decorative. Yeah that guy sitting there, the driver, he's not a turret or part of the hull, and the big airfoil behind him is just decorative. The runners on the sides are just where troops stand, also not the hull. Really, my tank is only an inch wide and an inch tall with an engine on the back and this large front plate. A single reaver jetbike gives me 50% coverage of everything that's actually my hull, hohohohohohohohoho!"

Seriously, it's rather annoying. With vague rules from GW on "what is and isn't a hull" DE players claim all kinds of shenanigans when it comes to their raiders, cover, and TLOS.

**wuestenfux**

Well, Grotesques are not that bad.

Think about mounting a full squad led by a Hamonculus into a Raider.
Send it straight to the enemy front ranks.
Synergy necessitates that some other Raiders full with Wyches, Incubi or Warriors are nearby.
The Grotesque Raider gets shot down but all Grotesques survive.
Next turn charge...

**Hollismason**

The important thing to remember is that player skill takes a huge part in the Dark Eldar army; they take a lot of skill and smarts to play periiod.

Its a huge part of the army and unfortunately only a few builds of the codex are very successful.

**wuestenfux**

Well, the last issue is mainly due to the fact that there are only a few useful units.

Scourges and Hellions are hardly useful.
Taloi and Mandrakes are fun to play but generally do not enter competitive lists.

**Tonytiger89**

Wow hang on a minute did i read this right- let me put on my glasses,
bloody hell it was
not taking the piss but please explain how apart from that rule there good

bearing in mind they look like complete dickheads, i think anway

**Broken Loose**

Incredibly cheap BS4 S8 Lance weapons.
The cheapest fast skimmers in the game, not even accounting for the fact that they're transports.
Horrorfexes are amazing.
Wyches are really good.
Shadow Field is really REALLY good.
Webways can make for ridiculous strategies.
Their most basic troop is an 8 point IG veteran with a better basic gun and Fleet.

I could keep going.

Don't underestimate DE.

**wuestenfux**

Webways can make for ridiculous strategies.

The last tourney I played with DE (this was Summer 2007 and I won it), I took two naked Haemonculi with WWP's.
In the new edition, the missions and deployment are even more in favor of DE.

**gardeth**

As far as I am concerned, 5th edition is the update that the dark eldar needed. I did pretty well in 4th ed, with alot of 2nd and 3rd place finishes in tournaments, but since 5th ed came out I have won numerous events. I had to alter my style of play dramatically and adapt my tactics, but damn it, it works. In my book, wyches are better then ever (yay multi-charges) and skimmers have gone up 100% in survivability.

As of right now I really don't want an updated codex, the current one won me a free demon army and got me an invite to Chicago this weekend. Of course after seeing the treatment the Space Wolves got in THEIR new codex......

**Exarch_Nektel**

willydstyle wrote:They have a hard time punching through the monolith... or BT land raiders with blessed hull... but despite the fact that a single dark lance shot is pretty lackluster, they can field them in such volumes that most AV 14 hulls cry.

Cursed blessed hull

**kuro_khan**

Broken Loose wrote:Incredibly cheap BS4 S8 Lance weapons.
The cheapest fast skimmers in the game, not even accounting for the fact that they're transports.
Horrorfexes are amazing.
Wyches are really good.
Shadow Field is really REALLY good.
Webways can make for ridiculous strategies.
Their most basic troop is an 8 point IG veteran with a better basic gun and Fleet.

I could keep going.

Don't underestimate DE.

Dark Eldar on the whole definitely do NOT suck. In the hands of the right player, they are a top army. Grotesques do suck though...

gardeth wrote:As far as I am concerned, 5th edition is the update that the dark eldar needed.

I love the new blast rules and the fact that skimmers don't blow up on immobilized most of the time now. Going from a 50% chance to blow up on a glance (4, 5, 6), down to a 17% chance is awesomesauce (although, we can get penetrated now... though 50% chance to die, rather than 83%). Not in love with the fact that we cannot kill BT LR Crusaders or Monoliths at all now... but ignoring them was the original method anyways...

**Quintinus**

You -just- realized this?

The Dark Eldar are seriously awesome. Sure most of their stuff stinks nowadays and their models look like and are all probably by Gary Morley, but dang, they are awesome.

Several times, I've had 9 Wyches and a Wych Lord destroy mobs of 30 Orks. Yes, 30 of the dang things. And I lost maybe 3 or 4 Wyches.

That is powerful.

Oh and let's not forget my favorite unit in the codex: Ravagers. For heavy support, take 3 Ravagers, each with 3 Disintegrators. Yes, that means 9 Plasma Cannon shots a turn. Or on the lower setting, 27 Str 4 Ap 3 shots at BS4.

Come on. How is that not cool?