Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So after seeing the greatness of the plague marines one of my friends brought up the question as to wether or not the wounds overcome by feel no pain count as wounds taken for assualt tally purposes. My intial reaction was that they did not count but after hearing his point and actually reading feel no pain, it says the wounds are taken but ignored, so now I'm not so sure. What is the overall concensus on this??

The wounds are taken if they pass through your armor save. The Feel No Pain is just a special rules that shows your troops are so battle hardened that wounds that would take them down can't take yours down, so the wounds are tallied even if he passes FNP. Plus, it's clear as it says the wounds are taken, therefore counting towards combat... or at least that's how I'm reading it.

If it says that the wounds are ignored... then it would follow that they are ignored for all purposes, including combat resolution. I think someone is trying to make this more complicated than it really is.

Edit: Blah. Note to self: Wake up before reading message boards.

My book on pg. 39 says total up unsave wounds on each side. The thing that makes me think they don't count is below that it says "Note that wounds that have been negated by saving throws or other special rules that have similar effects do not count"

That would seem to make the resolution pretty clear.

Indeed. FnP is obviously a "other special rule" which has a "similar effect" to a Save

Gwar! wrote:Indeed. FnP is obviously a "other special rule" which has a "similar effect" to a Save

This is a case of me getting more ignorant the more I read. The "do not count" in the rule means "are not added" to the total? I am pulling your quote as you seem to actually have a clue (which I now feel I do not).

Perhaps an example: 10 blue vs. 10 red and red have FNP. Blue causes 6 wounds, red inflicts 3. Blue fails 2 saves (2 unsaved wounds) red fails all armor saves (6 unsaved wounds) but rolls FNP and suffers no lost models. Before this discussion started I thought Red was the winner. But now I am not sure...

If FNP negates a wound, the wound is negated for all purposes.
Like Armor, Invulnerable, or Cover saves negate wounds.

kirsanth wrote:If FNP negates a wound, the wound is negated for all purposes.
Like Armor, Invulnerable, or Cover saves negate wounds.

FNP is rolled after a fail. You don't roll your Cover save or your Invul save after you fail your Armor save...at least I never understod those saves in that way.

You understood the rules correctly.

You misunderstood my post, or I wrote unclearly.

Any successful save is the same as a successful FNP.

In any case, no wound is caused, so no wound can be tallied.

So if a necron lord with a lightning field joined a unit of plaugemarines, would it then be an UBERHAXX combo?

You cannot take a Cover save and Invulnerable save after a failed Armour Save because you may only take 1 save. Feel No Pain is not a save, it is a special rule that allows you to negate unsaved wounds.

Gwar! wrote:You cannot take a Cover save and Invulnerable save after a failed Armour Save because you may only take 1 save. Feel No Pain is not a save, it is a special rule that allows you to negate unsaved wounds.

But do you count it as a saved wound?
Before I read this 40K YMDC I would have said, "Yes it is a saved wound and therefore 'do not count' means do not count it as an unsaved wound."

I am a total noob so maybe I am making this difficult – I am not trying to be obtuse.

Is it a wound that was prevented? Yes, so it is not an Unsaved wound.

wow this is a deep question

I play it that the FNP is the special rule (as gwar!) says and that it does not add to the tally...

The reason I think this way is what Brazila said

"My book on pg. 39 says total up unsaved wounds on each side. The thing that makes me think they don't count is below that it says "Note that wounds that have been negated by saving throws or other special rules that have similar effects do not count""

so, while yes it is a failed save and a wound it is then negated by "other special rules" and therefore would not count

Wounds ignored by FNP do not count toward combat resolution.

"Note that wounds that have been negated by saving throws or other special rules that have similar effects do not count" BGB p. 39

FNP is a special rule. (see BGB p. 75) The FNP special rule has the effect of negating a wound. It is indeed similar to a saving throw in that the player rolls a dice and if he rolls at or above a particular value the wound is ignored. Therefore wounds that have been ignored by FNP have been negated by a special rule with a similar effect to a saving throw, so they do not count toward combat resolution.

Just being an unsaved wound isn't enough to count it. It still has to pass over the "negated by..." hurdle before it can count. A wound ignored by FNP is not a saved wound, but it has been negated by a special rule that has a similar effect to a saving throw, so it still doesn't count toward combat resolution.

Hope this helps.

-GK

So seems like final concensus is that wounds ignored by FNP do not count towards combat resolution for close combat, glad to hear most other felt that way too.

I can only imagine a conversation between a group of khorne marines that just saw the 40 wounds they did to a plauge marine unit totally negated. Everyone is standing around while two Tzeetch referees trie to explain to the nurgle champion that even though he didn't take any wounds to his squad, he still lost by a bunch.