Tarval wrote:
Well after reading over both of you points I would rule like this.
First
Follow the steps for Thor665
1. Move assaulting units
2. Defenders react
3. Resolve combats
After all is said and done, the 50 man guard unit held its line and so the end of combat.
Okay, so we had a unit charge a 50 man
IG unit. So good so far.
Now we are into the second round of combat and thus its no longer the first round of combat.
1. move assaulting units.
2. defenders react of which they can not because they are tied up in base contact with the blob squad.
3. resolve combat of the second round.
Therefore because the enemy unit was fully engaged and unable to react. They would be unable to fight the other unit because its the secound round of combat and not the first round.
...wow, and just like that I'm lost. I don't recall seeing anywhere where Gwar! nor I discussed 'rounds' of combat. We were talking about when the beginning of combat during an assault phase was. That's what the rule you asked about talks of and thus what we answered. I think you're confusing the "beginning of combat" with "combat rounds" which are two totally different things.
Banshee mask work in the first round of combat. If we look at this same set up, what some of you are saying is that the banshee mask would always go first no matter who assault, if they were tied up in combat prior or what ever.
I don't believe either of us said that (could you quote where you thought we did?) No, the Banshee mask triggers "in the first round of an assault" this has nothing to do with when combat begins...well, to be honest it sort of does since the mask triggers at the beginning of combat on the first round of an assault - but it still wouldn't trigger at the beginning of combat on the second round of an assault. There can be a beginning of combat for every round of a given assault, but there can be only one first round. (again, I think this is where you're getting confused with what we're saying)
The fact that I am seeing is that this is not the first round of combat and there fore you would be able to force your opp to attack the blob unit?
No, because even if the rule in question would force you to attack the blob unit, the rule doesn't do so because of which round of combat it is, it does so depending on which models were basing which models at the start of combat.
I would also like to add that if the enemy unit assault two or more units and both held there ground. Then on the next assault, he would only be able to split his attack between the two or more units he assault on that first round of assault. The new unit would be able to fight with out any return hits because of the rule stated.
No, I'm afraid you're wrong there. Let me try to spell it out in a step by step process.
On the first turn some Howling Banshees assault a
IG squad (they get to use their Banshee masks since this is the first round of combat for this fight)
On the next turn we have a new Assault phase.
The Assault phase begins and he declares his assaults. He declares that an Ogryn Squad will assault the Banshee unit (the Banshee unit has an attached Autarch who is in b2b with the
IG squad)
1. Move assaulting units
The Ogryns are within range and move into b2b with the Banshee squad, they cannot base the
IC character.
2. Defenders react
The Banshees are allowed to react (reacting is defined in the rulebook as moving non-based models into b2b with assaulting unit(s))
3. Resolve combats
Combat has now officially begun - ao let's check the rules on page 41 that might prevent us from attacking the new unit of Ogryns. Please note that the rules say *model* and not unit - that does make a difference.
The Rulebook pg. 41 wrote:"Models that were engaged with just one of the enemy units at the beginning of the combat (before any model attacked) must attack that unit." and "Models that were engaged with more than one
enemy unit at the beginning of the combat (before any model attacked) may split their attacks freely between those units."
Okay, so, this is the beginning of combat since it is before any models attacked.
The Autarch is only engaged to the
IG - therefore he is only able to attack the
IG (and for the record you can replace the Autarch with a unit of Striking Scorpions and the same will hold through) The AUtarch's attacks cannot target the Ogryns.
The Banshee's have some models that are touching only Ogryns - those models have to attack Ogryns. Likewise models that are only touching
IG must attack that unit.
Some Banshee models are touching *both* Ogryns and
IG - those models may choose which they attack.
If the Autarch was a unit of Striking Scorpions and only one Ogryn model touched a Scorpion and all other Ogryn models touched only Banshees then only the *one* Ogryn touching a Scorpion could swing on the Scorpions to help the
IG unit kill them.
If you have any more questions or are confused by something I said feel free to fire away.
