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so i was looking through my codex and had the idea of running monsterous creatures heavy, ie. greater daemons and daemon princes, for a total of 5 mc. is this a viable opption for daemons? or will it get sloterd? i really like the model for the nurgle prince and the new plastic one that is STILL! "coming soon". im still unsure of what to use for support here if it can work. any comments on these 2 subjects is greatly appreciated.

Sounds nasty, what size a force this for?

I think there was a battle report from a Tezzenchzilla list a while back. Only problem is in pretty much every battle, the preferred wave with all the MCs? He didn't get it first. That's the big issue for demons in general really, but yeah, I'll try and find a link to that batrep.

Edit: Got it http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/252613.page

Ok, he didn't scatter badly EVERY time, but the all MC demon list is very chancy.

I've never had much success with princes, really... or bloodthirsters, for that matter. With only four wounds, they'll die to bolter fire in a round or two, and eat up a ton of points. For a while I was running two bloodthirsters, because it was the only way to ensure that *one* of them would survive long enough to assault something. When it dawned on me that I was spending 500+ points to kill 100-200 points (on average), those thirsters started gathering dust.

The same goes for daemon princes in that one of 'em can easily run 200+ points, but I'll be damned if I ever had one even make up its cost before getting rapid fired to death.

In my experience, killing daemon MC's is a lot like killing terminators--buckets of dice are the best tool for the job--and four wounds just aren't enough to hold up for very long.

Grinders, on the other hand, are immune to anything less than S7 from the front/sides, or S5 from the rear (excluding rending, obviously). They'll easily fill that Giant-Neon-Shoot-Me role, too. All for between 50-75% of the cost of a typical MC.

Focussing on HQ slots only, the only GD I'd bother with are GUO's. The extra wound, coupled with FNP, mean that it will take an ungodly amount of small arms fire to bring one down (Ku'Gath has six!). In dozens of games, I can count the number of times Fat Boy has bought it on one hand... with plenty of room left for an obscene gesture.

Another favorite of mine is the Herald of Tzeentch on a chariot. That's a jetbike with a 4++ and five wounds. All for 130 points (fully loaded) or 90 points (with enough extras to be a threat). If Ku'Gath/GUO's weren't so cool on their own, there's a strong argument for taking four.

Overall, I think that princes and (most) GD's are a lot better on paper than they are in practice. They're super expensive for what they do, and are waaaaaay too vulnerable to death-by-basic-infantry. If you stick to heralds and grinders, on the other hand, you have a lot more points to spend on everything else in your list.

If you just like MC's, you're probably better off playing Nidzilla.

I don't know about Chaos Daemons but Chaoszilla is immensely fun to run with 2 daemon princes a greater 3 dreadnoughts and 3 defilers.

It's just afun army to play and pretty decently competitive.

It does work, absolutely. The better variant is, as CatPeeler mentioned, is 2 MC HQs (I prefer a GUO and a keeper of secrets) and 3 Soul Grinders. They're the only source of good blasts, and also chew vehicles to bits.

As far as Daemon Princes go, I run them almost exclusively like so:

Daemon Prince - MoN, Iron Hide, Noxious Touch, Cloud of Flies, Daemonic Gaze 175

5 WS7 attacks on the charge that wound on 2+ (rerolled vs. T6&gt, ignore armour, and go at I5 with frags. 4 T6 3+/5++ wounds is pretty damn durable (over 100 bolter shots required to kill him), and the defensive grenades and 3 BS5 S5 AP3 shots are just icing. I've held objectives from HUGE numbers of enemies with one of those and 10 plaguebearers.

so basicly what you are saying is that with mc heavy you have to play nurgle heavy too. wich is fine with me as i like those modles, and have a great idea for a ku'gath conversion using the forge world GUO. the rest of the army would basicly consist of plaguebearers with icons then? if using only nurgle how are nurglings and beasts of nurgle? are they worth the points?

well, you certainly don't have to (all the HQ greater daemons are good), I just vastly prefer it. I find nurgle DPs to be the best, though shooty Tzeentch ones aren't bad either. I don't run pure nurgle; I use a unit of flamers, fiends and crushers in almost every army. My troops and HQ are usually nurgle though.

nurglings are alright, but usually die to no retreat pretty rapidly. Beasts are basically just non-scoring plaguebearers with potentially more attacks; I'd take more plaguebearers before I took beasts.

I think this would make for pretty effective pure nurgle army at 1250:

GUO - cloud of flies 165
GUO - cloud of flies 165

10 plaguebearers - icon 175
11 plaguebearers - icon 190

DP - MoN, iron hide, cloud of flies, noxious touch, breath of chaos 185
DP - MoN, iron hide, cloud of flies, noxious touch, breath of chaos 185
DP - MoN, iron hide, cloud of flies, noxious touch, breath of chaos 185

No ranged, but 22 T6 wounds and 21 T5 wounds, all of it with either FNP or a 3+ armour. 3 extremely painful flamer templates. Just drop in, weather the storm, and poison everyone to death. S5 MC might have trouble with land raiders, but everything else goes byebye if you catch it.

Nurgle's daemons look appealing, too bad it doesn't have a good support behind it. GUO is too slow, Nurgle DP is ridiculously expensive. Let alone giving stupid wings upgrade to an already hefty price to pay. To be honest, if you want something that's scary to play and something that's cool looking ( without conversion), 40k daemons almost can't do that.

One way that I could think of might be getting chariots, as they are tough, cheap, and functional. Soulgrinders VS Princes debates are always fun, but it will be a never ending story coz they are apples and oranges. Do you want their meltas and lascannons to be effective (soulgrinders), or do you want to rely on your huge amount of wounds and 4+ invuls (princes)? Yes, I don't see why bring something else other than tzeench princes, they are too expensive otherwise. Besides, they have ways to take care of something running away from you, not just chasing it for the whole game.... I can already tell that chasing something around isn't fun at all.

You might think chariots sounds ridiculous to be counted as MC, but look at the price and look at how much it can do and how the conversion potential going to look phenomenal, and how big the model gonna end up.

Here's my breaking down of my personal list to 1k. Bigger points might change how the army gonna look like, not MC themed anymore.

Khorne Chariot, Might, 100 pts
Tzeench Chariot, Bolt, Legion, 100 pts
Slaneesh Chariot, Musk, Gaze (to fill up points), Might, 95

5 PBs, 75
5 PBs, 75
5 PBs, 75

Tzeench DP, Bolt, Gaze, 160
Tzeench DP, Bolt, Gaze, 160
Tzeench DP, Bolt, Gaze, 160

Total 1000 pts

Increase to 2000

Remove gaze from slaneesh herald, add pavane
add one more of the same tzeench herald
add 3 of 6 fiends of slaneesh w/ might
add 2 of 8 flesh puppies
add 1 more 5 PBs
done.

Might not really helped since you want to stay nurgle themed, but just showing you how daemons actually can be more challenging to beat ( not that much, still).

The Defenestrator wrote:

I think this would make for pretty effective pure nurgle army at 1250:

GUO - cloud of flies 165
GUO - cloud of flies 165

10 plaguebearers - icon 175
11 plaguebearers - icon 190

DP - MoN, iron hide, cloud of flies, noxious touch, breath of chaos 185
DP - MoN, iron hide, cloud of flies, noxious touch, breath of chaos 185
DP - MoN, iron hide, cloud of flies, noxious touch, breath of chaos 185

Replace one GUO with Epi and you got a winner!