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What do people think of assault-orientated Eldar Armies? Are they viable? What do you think are the best assault troops? Howling Banshees, Harlequins or Scorpions? Are storm guardians useful or a waste of points? Please, enlighten me, I must learn of the subtle tenents of war!

T3 in my mind undermines any eldar assault unit. Certainly there is a spot for HB, SS or Harlies but they are not troops so cannot control objectives and they will probably only be effective for one assault.

Figure 3 attacks for a banshee or 4 for a scorpion they will kill opposing units but unless they wipe out an opponent, they are going to take significant losses.

It sounds weird but right now, I think the best eldar assault unit (minus a warlock retinue) are dire avengers with defend. The problem for the eldar is less causing casualties than surviving with anything useful after one combat round. Defend is going to do more for you than the +1 S of scorpions or the power weapons of banshees.

I don't really see how Storm Guardians can be good, most of the ways I can think of using them normal Guardians could also do just as well or maybe even better. For assaulting troop choices I'd go for a Dire Avenger squad with maybe a shimmer shield and probably a Wave Serpent.

Eldar assault armies should work, but it always depends on what race you're versing at the time. They can make an assault army entirely with power weapons. Allowing only invulnerable saves against them in CC. For that you're need to use Dire Avengers.

Obviously Avatar for HQ, maybe a Farseer to give out the occasional Doom or Fortune depending on how strong the unit you will be attacking is. But, if you go Assault Mech, don't take the Avatar he's too slow and will be left behind the rest of the army. He will still be usable in a mixed assault army though.

Maybe a few units in Wave Serpents to act as your counter attack. If you really want to use Storm Guardians, they are a tarpit unit, don't expect too much from them though. At best they'll just be holding stuff still so the Hit and Run guys (Shining Spears usually) can charge in a few times.

I don't know about Storm Guardians for combat.
But I know Storm Guardians are good for the triple flamer template...which is funny as they do shooting pretty well, but for only that turn assuming there is still stuff around to kill the Guardians.

Eldar cc armies: the pretty much need serpents to get them there need to plan a turn ahead. The charge is pulled off from disembarking+move+(fleet)+charging, and requires careful positioning.

Supporting powers obviously are a good thing. But with eldar you really want 2 round assaults so you are able to act on the next turn.
So doom is not exactly something to spam for combat purposes and can be applied elsewhere, second round should be were they 'finish' the job.

Sadly, if you go that route (second round doom) you lose some of the effectiveness when you no longer have the charge attacks to make the most out of doom.

My 7 Cents.

Search for threads detailing comparisons between Striking Scorpions and Banshees.

Can Eldar be an assault army?? Yes oh course, you can. You'll need to take farseers (possibly Eldrad) and warlocks on jetbikes. These guys will be the core of your fighting force ... the farseers will be buffing the warlocks (preferably from the safety of a transport) they want doom and fortune. Next you'll need elites 1-2 Howling banshees units and harlequins. Storm guards should be take to thin out hordes (with the flamers rather then in CC) and heavy support should have some anti tank ... may be a squad of warwalkers with Missile launchers (bright lances cost too much for what they do) and fire prisms to help thin out the units again. Add Wave serpents to as many units as you can and i think you've got a workable army.

The problem with Eldar assault armies in 5th edition is that the best assault troops--except for shining spears--are all elites. Since with the current metagame you really need a unit of fire dragons in most builds, that leaves at most 2 slots for assault troops--a third if you take a seer council.

Then by the time you've laid out the points for the necessary troops and HQ and your anti-tank, it's hard to have enough left over to pay for viable assault squads, especially in smaller games. And you're always having to trade off between scoring units and elite assault units, so it's really tough except in very large games or planetstrike games where you're attacking.

I miss the days of the craftworld codex where all aspect warriors counted as troops.

Eldar close combat units include:

Striking Scorpions
These guys rip up troops with light armour, and through sheer massed attacks can mess up troops in heavy armour. The problem is that they're slow, despite being able to infiltrate.

Howling Banshees
These ladies go through heavy troops, and they have Fleet so that they can move fast and not worry so much about being slowed down by terrain. They're lightly armoured so they're pretty vulnerable.

Shining Spears
These dudes are like Banshees, but even more mobile thanks to being Eldar Jetbikes. Seriously, they can move up to 18" per turn, and assault an enemy in two that it would take Howling Banshees or Striking Scorpions three (36" where a Wave Serpent would need to move 24", then 12" for disembark, and then 12" for the assault) However they're expensive and hence vulnerable. They can also do anti-vehicle work.

Storm Guardians
Guardians with close combat weapons. They're nice because you can give a pair Fusion Guns or Flamers, but they combine all the weaknesses of Banshees, and Scorpions (except the Scorpion's comparative lack of mobility), with a few extra like lower WS and I, even lighter armour, and lower leadership. They're cheap though, and can hold objectives.

Wraithlords.
These guys can have the dual Flamers that Storm Guardians can tote while being much more survivable. Unfortunately they are also expensive in terms of what else they prevent you from bringing to the table because they're Heavy Support.

Seer Councils
These guys are the lynch-pins, and the real key to the army. They fight well in combat thanks to poisoned weapons and invulnerable saves, but the real value comes from their psychic powers and synergy with other units.

Casting Doom on a unit about to be assaulted by Striking Scorpions helps that mountain of attacks wound, and on a unit assaulted by Howling Banshees helps them wound with S3, and helps to ensure effect from Shining Spears. They might even help Storm Guardians not get their asses kicked. A pair of Doom-assisted Flamers can turn an uneven fight before it starts.

Guide is also helpful, since softening up units for Eldar assault troops to mop up is what you want. Use Troops like Guardians or Dire Avengers (better the latter, really) to rain down shuriken upon them, and then move in with assault troops. However, what Guide can also be useful shooting units you're not planning on engaging in close combat. If possible, use Rangers and/or Pathfinders to suppress troops that might shoot at the victorious Eldar, and anti-tank platforms to stun/shake tanks that might otherwise vapourize victorious Eldar. Hold the the rest of your opponent in place while you bite chunks out of their army.

From a pure close combat perspective, use units like Striking Scorpions to lock units in combat, while power-hitters like Shining Spears either come in and hit the enemy, or Hit and Run so that they can make another attack run. Wraithlords are great for locking enemy units for other Eldar to come in and destroy.

Something to consider about Howling Banshees is that they can be pretty decent assault troops to throw into enemy assault troops like Assault Terminators, because their Exarch can have Bounding Leap, for the Counter-Attack universal special rule: Move something dangerous out to shoot, then run a Fortuned squad of Howling Banshees back out in front of the something dangerous unit to run screen retaliatory assaults.

Suppose a Space Wolf player is tired of Dark Reapers reaping his power armoured troops, and moves to assault with his Blood Claws next turn. The Eldar player can use the Banshee as a mobile reserve to run in front of the Dark Reapers after they shoot up the Blood Claws, and if the Blood Claws attack they're be hit first as if the Banshees had charged them, with power weapons.

I don't know about Banshees actively making use of counter attack.

It just allows the opponent to shoot them and maybe even make them fallback.

Certainly it's an option when there is little to no medium range anti-infantry weapon pointing their direction.
And a good example with blood claws as they can't shoot you if they are too close.

But you are still allowing the BC's to get their charge bonus, even if you attack first.
Seems win/win to just charge in. Still going first, you get your charge attacks for sure, and they don't.

My 7 Cents.

That's why you cast Fortune on them, and the Blood Claws only get their charge bonus if they survive to use them. Howling Banshees will hit first, hit better, and with three attacks. On average they'll get 2 hits, and one wound each, ignoring armour saves.

The idea behind this tactic is that you aren't able to assault the Blood Claws because they're 12" or so in front of the shooting troops. The shooting troops are in front of the Howling Banshees, protecting them from enemy shooting, and shoot approaching enemy assault troops like Blood Claws now within 12", and then the Howling Banshees run in front to prevent an assault against the shooting troops.

Take a unit of Guardians, for example. Guardians kinda suck because their Shuriken Catapults are 12" range. But they're nice little meat-shields. Move them up in front of the Howling Banshees until they're within 12" of the enemy and rattle off a round of Shuriken fire. Then the Howling Banshees run in front to eviscerate any assault by the survivors.

It's an option.

I think it's just a bit much on resources to throw into this. It's nice to defend an objective the guardians are holding.

Bashees have 3 attacks with counter attack.
10 bashees would result in 15 hits.
15 hits results into 5 wounds, of the 10 that are doomed, 3 more plus change, so roughtly 9 wounds total.

Which is pretty intimidating and with the prior shooting from pistols of banshees and guadian squad, that's one dead BC squad.

But it's also alot of resource there.

What if there was a hood.
How about podding flamers, or even hvy flamers?

It's an option, but I think pretty limited application, maybe in smaller point games it will show up more often.

My 7 Cents.

There wouldn't be any prior shooting from the Banshees: they would have run to get in front of the Guardians.

If there's a Psychic Hood that works, I guess the Banshees simply kill 5 Blood Claws before they can do any damage. Given that the Blood Claws have been shot up first by the Guardians, and hopefully lost a few in previous turns, that should be enough to make the return attacks result in less than 5 Banshee casualties.

Say there were 10 Blood Claws. 5 survive the Banshes, on average, 4 attacks each, so 10 hits, 7 wounds, 4 saves, so it's 5:3 in favour of the Banshees.

Would 5 have survived the Banshee's attacks? The Banshees would get 30 attacks, hitting on 3+ because Blood Claws are WS3, to 20 hits on average, with 7 wounds, leaving 3 Blood Claws. They get 12 attacks, 6 hits, 4 wounds, 2 saves. So it's about 7:2 in favour of the Banshees.

Something else to note is that a Doomed Blood Claw pack would have taken say, 18 Shuriken Catapult attacks, with 9 hits, 7 wounds, 5 saves, 2 wounds. So 8 Blood Claws make it into combat. Then 10 Banshees would have 30 Power Weapon attacks, with 20 hits, for 11 wounds (plus 4 of re-rolled 13 misses). So with Doom that would be overkill, on average, and no loss of Banshees.

It's much less resource intensive than losing an entire unit of Guardians and an objective!

Lets consider a real Space Marine Assault Squad, ten because they can assault from outside the Guardian's range:

Banshees get 30 attacks, 15 hits because their opponents are now real Space Marines, and 5 wounds without being Doomed, 8 with being Doomed. Of the five non-Doomed survivors you'd get 15 attacks, 8 hit, 5 wounds, 3 saves. Of the Doomed survivors, you'd get 6 attacks, 3 hits, 2 wounds, 1 save. Then you'd get either 5:2 or 8:1.

Edit: Oops, gotta adjust for the Bolt Pistols. 10 attacks, 7 hits, 5 wounds, 3 saves, so the Banshee start the combat at 8-strong. So 28 attacks, 12 hits, either 4 or 7 wounds. Leaving 6 or 3 survivors, on average, 18 or 9 attacks, 9 or 5 hits, 6 or 3 wounds, 3 or 2 saves, so 4:3 or 7:2.

Eldar assualt armeis are 100% viable, they are great at it.

Eldrad (or a fortune/doom seer)
Avatar
3 x WL with wraith swords
3 x 10 Harlies

And then some other filler, maybe Shinning Spears and DA's, whatever.

That hard core runs up the field and pummels gak. There is not much that won't steam roll. You make it across the board thanks to fortune on the avatar and halries, the harlies veil of tears and speed, and the WL's inherant toughness, plus target saturation.

I play a similar list (although mine has more long range anti tank) and I rarely lose assaults. The only thing that gives me trouble are horde armies as Eldar relly on wiping out their target on the charge, which they do well. But with large mobs of Orks or Bugs, for example, you kick the crap out of them on the charge but the survivors deal decent damage back and since your units are so frail in most cases, it hurts. Against elite armies like SM, CSM, Crons, etc, you will kick their ass in HTH due to higer In and ignorning armor.

Plus, it is a fun army to play. I love my infantry horde eldar army! Good fun and not what people are used to.

Banshees are very viable with doom.

Scorps are very viable with fortune.

Harlies are very viable with doom, and can double as tank hunters if you stack them with fusion guns.

Wraith lords are solid.

Storm guardians are simply for their flamers, but I find they work well with Yriel and a destructor warlock.

Tank mounted or jet bike mounted seer councils are one of the better assault units in the game.

The largest issue you have with Eldar assault armies is that you really don't want any scoring units in hth, and you don't really have any scoring units that are any good at hth.

With an exception for wraithlords (in most circumstances, anyways) the must-do thing is to get fortune off on any unit you plan on assaulting with.

Jetseer Council on bikes is the best HtH unit in the game, currently.

However, if you start playing space wolves players, their ability to block psychic powers on a 4+ (or 3+ with Njarl) will really cripple any Eldar attempts at close combat.

"Jetseer Council on bikes is the best HtH unit in the game, currently."

I agree that they are awesome, but I don't know about best, personally. I think They are easily one of th ebest. the problem is that they don't kill things that well. They are resilient as hell though.

Warboss Gutrip wrote:What do people think of assault-orientated Eldar Armies? Are they viable? What do you think are the best assault troops? Howling Banshees, Harlequins or Scorpions? Are storm guardians useful or a waste of points? Please, enlighten me, I must learn of the subtle tenents of war!

Well, none of the Aspects or Harlies provide a good assault force.
Eldar is like a razor-sharp knive.
They target one flank of the enemy, make damage and then withdraw before it gets tough.

A Seer Council is the best anvil unit in the game.
If you include Eldrad and Yriel, this unit also becomes a hammer unit.
I'd think in this direction.