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can you have more heavy choices than troop choices?

Yes, but you can only have 3 heavy choices.

so that sux. does that mean i can take up to 9 leman russ and only 2 troop squads?

Yes, as long as you fill out the compulsory requirements (1 HQ and 2 Troops).

To minimise your footsloggers (I assume you want a Tank Company), just take one Commissar and two Veteran Squads. This satisfies the FOC requirements. Mount your Vets in Chimeras/Valkyries if you want to have them be mobile too.

EDIT: Though be aware that you'll suffer when it comes to holding objectives, since IIRC, your Russes aren't 'scoring' units.

Step one, buy codex, step two read codex and Force Organization charts rules.

Then start buying models.

Step 3, download IA1 update and have leman russ squadrons as troops.

ETA, of course they're still not scoring so you need to have some infantry in there.

Scott-S6 wrote:Step 3, download IA1 update and have leman russ squadrons as troops.

ETA, of course they're still not scoring so you need to have some infantry in there.

Step 4 learn most people won't play IA since it is completely OTT

Eh? No it isn't

POints costs are excessive (note a Baneblade went from 600odd to 500 for apoc?) and the abilities arent that great. Apart from Slick Loader, that rocks.

nosferatu1001 IA lets you take some of the most stupidly over powered stuff. In apocalypse that kind of stuffs fine but in a normal game there's normal no way to deal with some of the weird stuff. Take the dread drop pod 50pts and no storm bolt, but the dread can assault same turn it DS. Then there's the deathstorm drop pod 75pts that will shoot D3 Str5 AP 4 large blast or D3 assault cannons at each unit within 12". Ok BS2 but hell its hard to miss with a large-blast. Then if it survives till the next turn it can shoot normaly. This thing vaporise orks and IG.

But then IA stuff is ether really good or really bad.

Todosi wrote:Step one, buy codex, step two read codex and Force Organization charts rules.

Then start buying models.

Step 3) ...

Step 3) Profit!

Tri wrote:nosferatu1001 IA lets you take some of the most stupidly over powered stuff. In apocalypse that kind of stuffs fine but in a normal game there's normal no way to deal with some of the weird stuff. Take the dread drop pod 50pts and no storm bolt, but the dread can assault same turn it DS. Then there's the deathstorm drop pod 75pts that will shoot D3 Str5 AP 4 large blast or D3 assault cannons at each unit within 12". Ok BS2 but hell its hard to miss with a large-blast. Then if it survives till the next turn it can shoot normaly. This thing vaporise orks and IG.

But then IA stuff is ether really good or really bad.

Yo0u're missing out that the drop pods in this case turn up in your opponents shooting phase and can be shot down, destroying the models inside. AV12. Also given it requires flyers rules it wouldnt' be used in standard games.

Like most things in IA it works if you take all IA, like a tank company. There you can take LR as troops but struggle with actual scoring troops.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Tri wrote:nosferatu1001 IA lets you take some of the most stupidly over powered stuff. In apocalypse that kind of stuffs fine but in a normal game there's normal no way to deal with some of the weird stuff. Take the dread drop pod 50pts and no storm bolt, but the dread can assault same turn it DS. Then there's the deathstorm drop pod 75pts that will shoot D3 Str5 AP 4 large blast or D3 assault cannons at each unit within 12". Ok BS2 but hell its hard to miss with a large-blast. Then if it survives till the next turn it can shoot normaly. This thing vaporise orks and IG.

But then IA stuff is ether really good or really bad.

Yo0u're missing out that the drop pods in this case turn up in your opponents shooting phase and can be shot down, destroying the models inside. AV12. Also given it requires flyers rules it wouldnt' be used in standard games.

Like most things in IA it works if you take all IA, like a tank company. There you can take LR as troops but struggle with actual scoring troops.

wow which page does it say they come in during your opponents shooting phase; I've completely missed that while reading.
edit found it the DeathWind is indeed a flyer ... trouble is the DeathStorm makes no mention to being a flyer and uses the rules all the Drop pod rules. (double edit same goes for the dreadnought drop pod)

Have you actually used one? Occassionally great but mostly meh.

Scott-S6 wrote:Have you actually used one? Occassionally great but mostly meh.

What the DeathStorm? yes you drop it in the middle of the enemies forces turn 1 you be in range of 2+ units and on average hit each unit with 2 large Str5 AP4 Blasts. Ork, Eldar, IG, Tau, Daemons and Tyranids are going to feel that.

look at this way ...
The whirlwind costs 85pts and has AV11-11-10 if unmolested it will fire 5-7 shots in a game.
The DeathStorm costs 75pts and has AV12 (open-topped) it will come in turn 1! and fire off D3 shots at every thing within 12". I've personally managed to get 7 Squads in range (after all only one guy need be within 12") I was unlucky to only roll a 1 but I still fired as many shots as Whirlwind would.

If you have played IA and never thought it was OTT then you're doing it wrong.

The rules on page 152 apply to both the variants on the facing page. They only come in on a 4+ on turn 1....

Three Penal Legionnaire Squads.

240pts, Job done.

Gwar! wrote:

Todosi wrote:Step one, buy codex, step two read codex and Force Organization charts rules.

Then start buying models.

Step 3) ...

Step 4) Profit!

Step 5) Market Crash

Step 6) Bailout?

nosferatu1001 wrote:The rules on page 152 apply to both the variants on the facing page. They only come in on a 4+ on turn 1....

No those rules are no longer used as they've updated it via PDF but thank you for playing

Tri wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:Have you actually used one? Occassionally great but mostly meh.

What the DeathStorm? yes you drop it in the middle of the enemies forces turn 1 you be in range of 2+ units and on average hit each unit with 2 large Str5 AP4 Blasts. Ork, Eldar, IG, Tau, Daemons and Tyranids are going to feel that.

look at this way ...
The whirlwind costs 85pts and has AV11-11-10 if unmolested it will fire 5-7 shots in a game.
The DeathStorm costs 75pts and has AV12 (open-topped) it will come in turn 1! and fire off D3 shots at every thing within 12". I've personally managed to get 7 Squads in range (after all only one guy need be within 12") I was unlucky to only roll a 1 but I still fired as many shots as Whirlwind would.

If you have played IA and never thought it was OTT then you're doing it wrong.

Like I said, it can be great. More often there isn't a handy space big enough for the open pod so it ends up being in range of 3 units (and often one or more of those will be getting a cover save)

Then it dies.

12 assault cannon shots at BS2 (4 hits) is only 44% chance of destroying or immobilising a Rhino. Or it's 1.1 dead marines. Not especially impressive at that's assuming that you roll 3 for shots.

The whirlwind launchers give it better anti-light-infantry capabilities but removes it's anti vehicle potential.


BTW, I use IA units all the time. Half of them are just minor variations, half are good but too situational. Almost all are slightly too expensive.

ok scott how about 50pts for a Drop that lets dreads assault out on the turn it comes in ... in my mind that over powered. There's very little some units can do against a dread even less against an iron clad ... they'll just be be chewed up and spat out.

Ouch, not seen those updated rules - they kept changing them!

So, as I said - IA has some really good units and some really, really bad unitzs. If you play entirely IA you are normally at a disadvantage.

Scott-S6 wrote:
Like I said, it can be great. More often there isn't a handy space big enough for the open pod so it ends up being in range of 3 units (and often one or more of those will be getting a cover save)

Time for the weird ass rules. Drop pod comes down closed. and then pops open once its DS. If the doors can't open they stay closed. Now for the weird bit. You can shoot through you own unit (it doesn't block LOS or give cover) and as the door are part of a model in the same unit oh snap you can shoot through them.

... yet one more reason GW can't write for toffee ...

(Edit lol wrong right)

Tri wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:
Like I said, it can be great. More often there isn't a handy space big enough for the open pod so it ends up being in range of 3 units (and often one or more of those will be getting a cover save)

Time for the weird ass rules. Drop pod comes down closed. and then pops open once its DS. If the doors can't open they stay closed. Now for the weird bit. You can shoot through you own unit (it doesn't block LOS or give cover) and as the door are part of a model in the same unit oh snap you can shoot through them.

... yet one more reason GW can't write for toffee ...

(Edit lol wrong right)

Vehicles are different. They cannot shoot though parts of themselves. If they could Sponson LOS rules would be meaningless.

Gwar! wrote:Vehicles are different. They cannot shoot though parts of themselves. If they could Sponson LOS rules would be meaningless.

But is there any rules that say that? I've yet to find any. They use LOS and LOS tells you to ignore you own unit. Cover tells you to ignore your own unit. Is this stupid? Hell yes, but those are the rules. Feel free to quote me wrong

Minimum is 1 HQ, 2 Troops
Max is 2 HQs, 6 Troops, 3 Fast Attacks, 3 Heavy Supports and 3 Elites.

Tri wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:
Like I said, it can be great. More often there isn't a handy space big enough for the open pod so it ends up being in range of 3 units (and often one or more of those will be getting a cover save)

Time for the weird ass rules. Drop pod comes down closed. and then pops open once its DS. If the doors can't open they stay closed. Now for the weird bit. You can shoot through you own unit (it doesn't block LOS or give cover) and as the door are part of a model in the same unit oh snap you can shoot through them.

... yet one more reason GW can't write for toffee ...

(Edit lol wrong right)

Firstly, the doors do not open after deploying - nothing in the rules allows for this. You can turn vehicle weapons to point at the target but nothing else can be opened/closed/changed. Pod must be modelled open or closed, that's it.
Secondly, you can shoot through other members of your unit - that's not the same as a vehicle shooting through parts of itself (clearly not allowed as shown by the sponson diagram and example).

As for the dread pod, it seems a little cheap but I haven't used it. Do I really want my dread in combat straight away? It's only going to kill one or two models a turn. I'd rather have it shooting (especially my seige dread) than tarpitting a middle-of-the-range unit.

Scott-S6 wrote:

Tri wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:
Like I said, it can be great. More often there isn't a handy space big enough for the open pod so it ends up being in range of 3 units (and often one or more of those will be getting a cover save)

Time for the weird ass rules. Drop pod comes down closed. and then pops open once its DS. If the doors can't open they stay closed. Now for the weird bit. You can shoot through you own unit (it doesn't block LOS or give cover) and as the door are part of a model in the same unit oh snap you can shoot through them.

... yet one more reason GW can't write for toffee ...

(Edit lol wrong right)

Firstly, the doors do not open after deploying - nothing in the rules allows for this. You can turn vehicle weapons to point at the target but nothing else can be opened/closed/changed. Pod must be modelled open or closed, that's it.
Secondly, you can shoot through other members of your unit - that's not the same as a vehicle shooting through parts of itself (clearly not allowed as shown by the sponson diagram and example).

As for the dread pod, it seems a little cheap but I haven't used it. Do I really want my dread in combat straight away? It's only going to kill one or two models a turn. I'd rather have it shooting (especially my seige dread) than tarpitting a middle-of-the-range unit.

Doors move. Raw you don't change the shape but there is nothing that stops you place the model down doors open, doors close or even some doors open. Any way want to debate this further i've start a thread about weapons los... before we completely derail this one ^_^

Transports are generally bought with a unit (BRB doesn't say anything about it being part of the unit, and it doesn't need to remain in coherency), but that in no way makes them part of a unit, especially since 5th ed. opened up transport sharing.

If you look at the sponson arc diagrams in the rulebook you'll clearly see that the vehicle itself is what really restricts the firing arc, suggesting that vehicles cannot shoot through themselves regardless... this is a different debate.

Further off topic, but interestingly, you can buy a Razorback alongside a Wolf Guard Squad in Terminator Armour now... they still can't ride it, but they can have one! If only they could stand behind it and fire their assault cannons...

Tri wrote:
Doors move. Raw you don't change the shape but there is nothing that stops you place the model down doors open, doors close or even some doors open. Any way want to debate this further i've start a thread about weapons los... before we completely derail this one ^_^

There's nothing allowing you to open or close doors either. You don't need a rule to prevent it - there's no permission to do it.

And opening the doors is most certainly changing the shape - especially when they're massive like on the drop pod.