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I was having an interesting discussion with a friend of mine last night about whether Razorbacks are a good economical Predator.

The Razorback is definitely cheaper at 75pts with a lascannon turret. It can also transport up to 6 models, so that's also a tactical consideration, and would make me want to equip it with extra armour and a storm bolter, driving the cost to 100pts.

As for the Predator, a lascannon turret alone drives the cost to 105pts. Throw on lascannon side-sponsons and it's now 165pts. Of course, it does have better armour than the Razorback, and it's going to cause a lot more damage, but it's got no transport capacity and you may not have the points to spare for it in a smaller game.

It's like the difference between a falcon and a fire prism.

The Razorback is better if you have a tank busting squad in it or a troops choice (can take objectives), but the predator has far greater firepower/armor.

They have entirely different roles on the battlefield. Of course the Predator is going to work out better, especially if used as the Dakka Predator with the Autocannon and Heavy Bolter sponsons. If you want Lascannons, use the Razorback or have them as sponsons on the Predator.

Razorbacks are good cheap extra anti tank firepower if you have small units of marines and have the points. Something extra for an opponent to worry about and the best part, cheap enough to be used as mobile cover

If you just want the extra shot on a sacrifice transport vehicle then rhino with an HK if the points are spare in my experience transports are the first thing people go for.

If you are going to take Razorbacks then take the Assault Cannon does a better job against armour (if i recall my workings LC are slightly better against AV12)

AV13 is immune to alot more things than AV11.

Well I just was thinking about this because my first tank was a Razorback. What I'm saying here is that if you're strapped for points, a Razorback can provide cheap anti-armour, much like a Predator (albiet, much more fragile).

I have a razorback in my army since it can assist my marines as a transport aswell as providing some additional firepower with its twinlinked lascannon turrets. Whilst it isnt exactly a force of nature it does add abit of extra bite.

They both serve very different roles. I think the predator competes against a lot of good choices in the SM heavy support slots and the razorback does not have to compete with anything for slot space.

I haven't used predators much since my last edition chaos army. My vote goes for the razorback, which does see use in my current SM army.

Captain + Command squad is a great razorback squad.

I really like the lascannon + plasma, assault cannon, and Hflamer versions. I use no rhinos in my marines as of right now, only razorbacks. Leave your heavy weapon back in your backlines, and your assault sarge + special weapon in your razorback, rush forward, wreck things.

I haven't really run predators...but I think that I'd get about the same mileage.

I do have two, until the price goes down with the new Codex, Razorbacks. I tend to stick with the Twin Linked Lascanons as a mobile Lascanon that hits what it shoots at. They're really nice against much of the more mechanized lists. Not so nice against the hordes, like the Tyrinids I played last night. Yikes.

The question is... how do you play?

I play Black Templars and use 2-4 Razorbacks under 2000pts. We have a zest for close combat, so the thing to remember if you can/should/like to close combat is... don't stop moving! The Razorback is not a "tank". Do not sit back and expect the performance of the Predator. It has less firepower and armor SO THAT it can deliver troops. Also, the Razorback is not a Rhino. You should not just move 12" because you have troops inside. Advance and Protect your cargo... Move 12" if you have no targets, Move and Shoot if you do.

Versatility is what the Razorback provides.

If you're completely a shooty Marine army, go with the Predator.

PS- I think the Razorback v Predator discussion is more applicable than the Razorback v Rhino discussions.

Not really sure why you compare the 2 vehicles.

Razor - troop carrying vehicle with moderate firepower.
Designed as a dedicated transport.

Pred - Heavy support choice, depending on upgrades it fills multiple roles, also has much better armour since its ment to be more of a battle tank.

The reason I'm comparing them is in the event you're tight on points, you can take a Razorback as a cheap Predator with transport capacity.

The comparison is fair... and warranted. For the sake of clarity in rules we have the terms "dedicated transport" and "heavy support choice" but for those to be the main reason for not comparing the two is close minded. If people are comparing the Razorback to the Rhino because they're both "dedicated transports", they wouldn't be wrong, but they should think outside the box a little more.

Fluff wise, who's to say that the Razorback wasn't designed as a light Predator and given transport capability (as FW IA2 fluff might suggest)?

Note: The Israeli's use a tank called the Merkava that carries infantry.

If you can get that Razorback in some cover its got a 4+ cover save with some outstanding range on those TL LCs.

Andilus, from both the fact that you play Space Wolves and that you very a very CC orriented game, i'd suggest the Razorback.
The Razorback provides the ability to make any small unit a quick response unit to protect your flanks or any breaks in your line. It gives you the ability to move around your Long Fangs and get them into strategic positions and, worst case scenario get them out of harms way. It can provide extra firepower and mobile cover for your Long Fangs or any other unit that you place them with.

First off your going to be taking troops anyway. Unless your running all scouts, your taking Tactical Squads, so the Razorback is and upgrade for them, and the Pred is a Heavy Slot. So if you need cheap TL-lascannons it's better to get them as an upgrade than to use a Heavy Support slot on a single main gun'ed Pred....well thats my thoughts anyway.