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Hello there,

I used the search tool to find something similar and couldnt find anything relevant.

What happens if I have an astropath and my oponent has a master of the fleet in regards to rerolling from which table edge outflanking units arive from?
Forcing your opponent to reroll a dice that has already been rerolled seems odd.


Thanks in advance

Well, it specifically says that you can't re-roll a re-roll but as to which takes precedent...I have a feeling that this is going to turn into a 70/80 post thread with no answer.

I think there was a discussion about something like this a while ago, not sure about that. Maybe a search might help to bring up information.

TBH Im not a huge fan of RAW.

The way I see it, realistically one would negate the other's special ability so until we have no structured solution I will play it this way.

This is just how Ive played it, but Ive always played it that the re-rolls apply as called by the player that owns them. This is not clear I know but consider:

I roll to bring in reserves. I fail. my opponent smiles. I then use my Astropath for a re-roll and succeed. my oppoent then forces me to re-roll that dice using Master of the Fleet. I am obliged to use that final dice.

If I failed the first roll and my subsequent astropath re-roll, it is unlikely that my opponent will require another roll.

Alternatively i roll to bring in reserves and succeed. My opponent requires me to MoF re-roll and I fail. I then opt to use my Astroboy re-roll, and am obliged to use that final dice.

If i succeed the first and the forced MoF second re-roll, I wont be using my reroll.

I think it makes sense?

This is almost excatly the same thing as Null Zone Librarian versus Fatewearerwhateveritwascalled.
If this thing would happen to me, I would just negate each others powers, as you can't re-roll dice twice.

darkkt wrote:This is just how Ive played it, but Ive always played it that the re-rolls apply as called by the player that owns them. This is not clear I know but consider:

I roll to bring in reserves. I fail. my opponent smiles. I then use my Astropath for a re-roll and succeed. my oppoent then forces me to re-roll that dice using Master of the Fleet. I am obliged to use that final dice.

If I failed the first roll and my subsequent astropath re-roll, it is unlikely that my opponent will require another roll.

Alternatively i roll to bring in reserves and succeed. My opponent requires me to MoF re-roll and I fail. I then opt to use my Astroboy re-roll, and am obliged to use that final dice.

If i succeed the first and the forced MoF second re-roll, I wont be using my reroll.

I think it makes sense?

You can't re-roll any dice more than once, so in your first example your opponent can't force you to re-roll your reserve roll and in your second example you couldn't use your Astropath.

As for decisions on who gets to use its re-roll first (could this really come up? a result where BOTH players are unhappy with the board edge?!), it doesn't say anything in the rules AFAIK, so roll a 4+ for it.

Kodopitharos wrote:TBH Im not a huge fan of RAW.

So how do you play the game?

it takes all of 5 seconds to figure this out.

You will roll the dice, and then, if either player opts to use the rule to force a re-roll, you will re-roll the dice and the second result will stand, because further re-rolls cannot take place.

Gwar! wrote:

Kodopitharos wrote:TBH Im not a huge fan of RAW.

So how do you play the game?

I follow the most important rule written on page 2 of the compact rulebook. I consider arguements of whether Nork is an Ogryn or not based on whether the "Ogryn" is spelled with a capital letter or not very interesting on a philoshophical basis, but not something that should affect your (well mine really) gaming experience.

I only mentioned I am not a huge fan of RAW to point out that I would be more than happy with an answer like "Roll a D6 for it".

It is just that sometimes the rule is right in front of you and you dont see it. Thats why I asked here. In case someone had seen it.

Thanks for all the replies, I guess when it comes up next week I'll be rolling a for it

Kodopitharos wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Kodopitharos wrote:TBH Im not a huge fan of RAW.

So how do you play the game?

I follow the most important rule written on page 2 of the compact rulebook. I consider arguements of whether Nork is an Ogryn or not based on whether the "Ogryn" is spelled with a capital letter or not very interesting on a philoshophical basis, but not something that should affect your (well mine really) gaming experience.

I only mentioned I am not a huge fan of RAW to point out that I would be more than happy with an answer like "Roll a D6 for it".

It is just that sometimes the rule is right in front of you and you dont see it. Thats why I asked here. In case someone had seen it.

Thanks for all the replies, I guess when it comes up next week I'll be rolling a for it

I want to automatically win. Lets roll a D6 for it, if you refuse you are TFG and breaking TMIR!

Gwar! wrote:

Kodopitharos wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Kodopitharos wrote:TBH Im not a huge fan of RAW.

So how do you play the game?

I follow the most important rule written on page 2 of the compact rulebook. I consider arguements of whether Nork is an Ogryn or not based on whether the "Ogryn" is spelled with a capital letter or not very interesting on a philoshophical basis, but not something that should affect your (well mine really) gaming experience.

I only mentioned I am not a huge fan of RAW to point out that I would be more than happy with an answer like "Roll a D6 for it".

It is just that sometimes the rule is right in front of you and you dont see it. Thats why I asked here. In case someone had seen it.

Thanks for all the replies, I guess when it comes up next week I'll be rolling a for it

I want to automatically win. Lets roll a D6 for it, if you refuse you are TFG and breaking TMIR!

The good thing about your deduction is that your absolute criticism does me justice since you know me personally inside out, which only makes sense as you read two posts of mine in a forum, totalling around 75 words.

I will be leaving this forum then

Thanks to the rest of you for your prompt assistance

Ok, seriously, WTF? I point out a flaw in your views and you leave the forum?

gwar, you owned him so hard he fell off the internet!

Drunkspleen wrote:it takes all of 5 seconds to figure this out.

You will roll the dice, and then, if either player opts to use the rule to force a re-roll, you will re-roll the dice and the second result will stand, because further re-rolls cannot take place.

This is correct.

Drunkspleen wrote:it takes all of 5 seconds to figure this out.

You will roll the dice, and then, if either player opts to use the rule to force a re-roll, you will re-roll the dice and the second result will stand, because further re-rolls cannot take place.

In this case it's easier just to allow no re-rolls and accept the result of the first die.

Because if the roll is successful, player B will ask you to reroll. If the roll is failed, player A will re-roll it.

So, no matter what result of the first roll, someone will want to reroll it. So you might as well not roll it the first time, since no matter what it will be rerolled.

So the simplest solution (and quickest) is that they cancel each other out, and the first die result stands.

That may be the quickest, but it is by no means the simplest. The simplest is to just follow the rules as is, because it will just lead to bickering later on, with the person who "lost" that first roll claiming the opponent cheated because he was meant to re-roll it and he may have "won" the re-roll.

Gwar! wrote:That may be the quickest, but it is by no means the simplest. The simplest is to just follow the rules as is, because it will just lead to bickering later on, with the person who "lost" that first roll claiming the opponent cheated because he was meant to re-roll it and he may have "won" the re-roll.

How is that simple?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

kirsanth wrote:

Gwar! wrote:That may be the quickest, but it is by no means the simplest. The simplest is to just follow the rules as is, because it will just lead to bickering later on, with the person who "lost" that first roll claiming the opponent cheated because he was meant to re-roll it and he may have "won" the re-roll.

How is that simple?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Because it prevents problems later on. You Roll the dice. If you have the option to re-roll, state you are and re-roll it. If you want to keep the result, ask your opponent, shall I re-roll it? If so, do it. If not, don't. Prevents a lot of aggro later on. Trust me

Orkestra wrote:

Drunkspleen wrote:it takes all of 5 seconds to figure this out.

You will roll the dice, and then, if either player opts to use the rule to force a re-roll, you will re-roll the dice and the second result will stand, because further re-rolls cannot take place.

In this case it's easier just to allow no re-rolls and accept the result of the first die.

Because if the roll is successful, player B will ask you to reroll. If the roll is failed, player A will re-roll it.

So, no matter what result of the first roll, someone will want to reroll it. So you might as well not roll it the first time, since no matter what it will be rerolled.

So the simplest solution (and quickest) is that they cancel each other out, and the first die result stands.

In this case it's not true because it's not a pass or fail roll, it's a roll for left board edge, right board edge, or your choice, and while it is unlikely, it's possible that both players perhaps want them to enter play from the left board edge so neither would force the re-roll there. Indeed there may even be times where a player might opt to accept a failed armour save for example when he has a choice to re-roll because it will put the firing unit out of charge range. Unless the re-rolls are forced, with no option to accept the first result, it's generally better to not cut out this step.

And as Gwar! said, it's only too easy to get players who either don't understand why you are causing them to cancel out (they think it's some bizarre houserule and you end up wasting more time explaining it than just making the extra roll), or who don't understand probability and insist that the act of rolling twice instead of once would have made all the difference to your luck.

Simple - This is the exact same case as a Farseer and PotW (rules forcing your first roll to be re-rolled, regardless of result). Just roll once and abide by the result.

Complex - It is a little more complicated if either player can choose not to apply their power, since the rule says "may" do something. So if you really want one side and the other player really wants the other. So you roll, and are happy, so he makes you re-roll. Or you roll and are unhappy, so you choose to re-roll.

Either way, you can only re-roll once.

Homer