Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey fellow Dakkaites I am starting a new BA Bike army. I've played space marines before for quite some time and I have never been very productive with Bikes so in order to get better with them I am embracing them into a whole new army. My problem seems to be that they ride, rapidfire and die. So My question to you is how do you run a bike army.

P.S. I use a Korsoro Khan count as for a standard dex BA army

whenever you play in a tournament, especially against tau, keep your entire army in reserve.

It will be the quickest game you've ever played.

Horst wrote:whenever you play in a tournament, especially against tau, keep your entire army in reserve.

It will be the quickest game you've ever played.

Dang, beat me too it.

I had a test bike list that worked out pretty well. It incorporates the best space marine armies and then uses bikes as troops and mobile fire power.

Something like this:

1 Captain w/Bike, Meltabombs

4x Space marine bikers 2x w/melta gun 1xmeltabomb
1x Attack bike w/MM

4x Space marine bikers 2x w/melta gun 1xmeltabomb
1x Attack bike w/MM

4x Space marine bikers 2x w/Flamer
1x Attack bike w/MM

4x Space marine bikers 2x w/Flamer
1x Attack bike w/MM

Dreadnought w/2x TL autocannon
Dreadnought w/2x TL autocannon
Dreadnought w/2x TL autocannon

Landspeeder w/MM & HF
2x Landspeeder w/2x MM & 2x HF
2x Landspeeder w/2x MM & 2x HF

Predator w/ AC/HB sponsons
Predator w/ AC/HB sponsons
Predator w/ AC/HB sponsons

1850 pts

Obviously, not completely bikers and it is regular space marines, but it gives a nice framework for a biker army.
While using the basic structure of the quality space marine lists.

dang timmah, I love that list....

Never reserve your whole~aw frak....you guys beat me.

Anyways, you should never use all bikes imo, but if you want to try it, go ahead, Timmah already got the idea down (Take an attack bike with a MM in the squad (and blood angels can't do this :( ), take some melta guns, drive up to tanks and gun them down! This won't solve everything though, that's why he's got the dread/pred crew back there.)

Raven Wing is fun I hear, but their bikes are a little more costly than the generic SM ones.

For Blood Angels, I think you'll want some Assault Marines to keep up with your bikes, and a biker HQ (libby or captain, either one with meltabombs)
It's much harder for the BA because they don't get bikes as a troops choice, it's all fast attack, but that's ok, that gives you some troops that can hold objectives and provide support fire.

Horst wrote:dang timmah, I love that list....

Me too, it makes me so happy every time I see it.

And scared, if people in my area start to use it.

The one reason I am kinda scared using it, is I think it will have trouble with any type of uber unit army if you make any mistakes.
Nob bikers or a bike seer council getting into your stuff could really ruin your day.

ah... true. you don't have a huge crusher unit like assault terminators to counter other uber units.... hmm...

perhaps drop the speeders for a command squad? Its not like your short on mutlimetla, and a command squad would really help out with the anti-nob bikers / councils

your list, revised -

HQ- Captain w/ relic blade, bike, hellfire rounds - 175 pts
2x stormshield / hammer guy on bike
1x stormshield / chainsword guy on bike
1x standard / chainsword / boltpistol guy on bike
1x apothecary on bike
retinue cost - 325

Elite- 3x rifleman dreads
Troops - 4x biker squads (as listed by you)
Heavy- 3x dakka preds

The problem I see with all bike lists is you are going to be seriously outnumbered. I played against a white scar force in the last tourney I went to and outnumbered his troops 3:1 and I was using Ultramarines. I just hunkered in the center of the table and waited for his troops to show up, which they did in a piecemeal fashion, and then gunned them down. Sure I lost a lot of my heavy armour but my troops held the line admirably. And at the end of the day his forces were coming onto the table 3-6 models at a time, and I already had 30 marines waiting for them to show.

Like I put up there while I normally play BA I am using a Korsoro Khan Count as because his troop bike ability. I have him leading a command squad with all stormshields, apothacary 2 power weapons and 2 powerfist and I play 2000 pts generally so it isn't to big a change to timah list in order to incorparate it. I really like that list though

Ah, yes it could very easily be switched to have Kor'sarro and a nob biker esque command squad. I would make sure you have close to 10 in that command squad. Because 5 at 2k pts really isn't going to work.

Basically, probably switch the captain to kor'sarro and incorporate 5 bikes from the troops selection into the command squad.

@caesar_uec:
Other than WYSIWYG, why power swords on Storm Shield Command Squad member when you could get a lightning claw for the same price and be infinitely cheaper.

Having a stormshield means you never benefit from +1 A for two weapons, so a power weapon is an inferior choice.
_________________________________

I personally don't like Biker Command Squads. They do occupy a niche that needs filling in a biker army: Combat muscle/counter-attack, but one can focus that elsewhere.
At the base of it, I really hate how small the squad is...

_________________________________

To Khan or Not To Khan.

This is how I see it:

Captain allows combat tactics and is cheaper.
At 1500 and less, combat tactics shines.
At 1500-1750, it’s a bit meh.
At 1850+, there’s just too much going on and too much congestion of the board to make great use of it.

Khan as one can guess fits in better when points are higher.
More points and loss of CT is not so bad.
In addition, he is best used if you have:
1. Command Squad on bikes.
2. Assault Termies in a dedicated LR variant.

Depending on how you play or what sort of units you like can determine who you pick at any points level.
Khan is really only there to buff one unit (the one he joins) and demands that unit to be the prime beatstick of the army.

You get Khan NOT for Outflank, NOT for Furious Charge, NOT for the overcosted bike with abilities you will most likely never use.

No, you get Khan for Hit and Run.
It is huge, it is crazy speed, you are allowed to not only H+R backwards, but forwards into the enemy army. Plunging into the enemy army to get to the squishy units.
With this in mind, you want to maximize 2 round combats so that you end combat on the enemies’ turn.
That means minimizing initial charge damage, and maximizing second round.

That means the Light Bulb approach to charging, I can’t access the place where it is, but I will post the link to Bolter And Chainsword that explains it.
Essentially you are conga lining and holding back the unit assaulting, so that the pile in will drag everyone else into the combat.
This basically wastes furious charge, but maximizes Hit and Run.

One problem with Hit and Run: it can fail…
________________________________

Bikers are wonderful platforms for all the special weapons.
Flamers: extra speed to get into flamer range, yes please.
Meltas: extra speed to get into 2D6 range, yes please.
Plasma: (I personally don’t like them, but) Allowed to shoot 24” on the move, then double tap and still charge, yes please.

You get 2 to boot, and a hvy weapon that shoots on the move.

Now don’t be fooled. Bikers are tougher than the average Marine, but you pay for it. There is an issue with model count and that there are less body bags and there are still weapons that cut through ‘tough’ marines at an alarming speed.
_________________________________
To Fist or not to fist:
I feel a biker squad doesn’t ‘need’ the fist. It’s not there for combat, and it’s only an option if you know you’ll win.
A fist is an insurance policy, an expensive one, and best on large/generalist squads that will most likely charge something at some point.

Note: Bikers are not really for combat, but they can be decent anvils. In addition, double tapping TL bolters AND charging is a withering barrage of attacks. You shouldn’t want to charge your bikes into the enemy army all the time, but you should expect to be in combat at some point, whether if it’s you taking the initiative or the enemy finally catching you.
_________________________________

Anyway, there are 2 biker lists I use, the first is 1500 Semi-Competitive Singles Tourney list. The second is the 1250 Fun Doubles Tourney List.

1500:
Captain, Bike, Relic.
8 Bikers, Fist, 2 Flamers, HB Attack Bike.
8 Bikers, Fist, 2 Meltas, HB Attack Bike.
8 Bikers, Fist, 2 Meltas, HB Attack Bike.
3 HB Attack Bikes.
3 MM Attack Bikes.
3 MM Attack Bikes.

25 pts for random gear.

The list is pure bikers at the 1500 level, it has issues with stairs (lol), but it does well enough shooting things up.

Biker lists need to stay close together. You can feint, you can start split deployment, but they need to stay close to actually win IMO.
You need to perform force concentration and make your speed and application of fire power and pressure overcome the glaring weakness of lack of bodies and limited combat muscle that keeps up.

In addition, anyone that fears the council…don’t be.
Stick together and when the council shows up, be aggressive. Get into double tap range with 2+ squads and open fira and charge.
Sure they are MEQ’s with fortune, but the amount of fire power you can put out can over load it.

1250

Khan, Moondrakkan.
Techmarine, Bike, Full Harness, Power Weapon.
Techmarine, Bike, Full Harness, Power Weapon.
8 Bikers, Fist, 2 Meltas, HB Attack Bike.
6 Bikers, 2 Meltas, HB Attack Bike.
3 HB Attack Bikes.
3 MM Attack Bikes.

Basically it’s a fun-ish super unit.

First up: techmarines’ bolsters can help your ally if the camp or stuff.

Khan goes with the large bikers, and the 2 techs go in the squad as well.

So we have a 12 man squad of death.
It’s highly mobile with hit and run, but needs to charge the ‘right’ units.
On the charge:
5 Attacks str 5 I6 for Khan.
8 Attacks str 5 I5 from techmarines
Lots of joe attacks at str 5 I5.
7 Power fist attacks at str 9.

Not to mention:
Lots of TL-bolters.
Hvy bolter
2 Meltas
2 TL Plasma pistols
2 Flamers

Basically you’ll need to balance how much shooting or combating you’ll be doing, else you leave yourself in a bad position.

The rest of the list just supports the uber squads’ advance.

I chose the Bikers for the basis of the Uber squad instead of the command squad because:
1. There wasn’t enough points/I don’t like command squads.
2. Bikers score.
3. Bikers have more bodies.
4. Outside of storm shields they have the same effective durability. FNP vs. double the number of wounds.

________________________________


I have a Bike Tactica over at 40K Online (a bit old, but still 5th ed), I can’t get to it, but I’ll post it up when I can.

In addition, there are great resources of Biker Tactica and The Way Of The Water Warrior article over at Bolter and Chainsword.

Anyway, just some random thoughts.

My 7 Cents.

If you're going to leave everything in reserve, want to outflank and you're opponent has lost of infiltrators; include a Rhino or any other tank to Tank Shock them out of the way.

If you play in a open list environment, you shouldn't be as stupid as that player did in the topic over in the general discussion.

You just have to be aware of the opponent's list.
It's a gamble if you play in a closed list environment.
But High Risk/High Returns.

But It would be nice as an insurance to have a tank to tank shock on.

But there is a problem, what if you tank shock, and they death and glory and you are immobilized off the table.
Isn't there a rule that you ignore rules that would prevent that?

So what would happen? You ignore death and glory rules but reap the benefits of opening a door and not getting killed, while forcing a ld check on the enemy?
This is not covered in the rule book, so it ultimately ends with the Tourney organizers decision or a decision between the two players, either 4+ or some other compromise.

My 7 Cents.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This question has poped up at random times, so I'll address how I see it:

Ravenwing vs. Vanilla Bikers.

People ask which one is better. The answer should be: they are different.

Ravenwing (better it be doublewing) is a Scalpel.
-Ravenwing bikers/Doublewing are fewer in number, but are force concentrated with the amount of special rules they have, essentially they are able to set up combos early in the game and set up their army to take out choice units and perform precision deepstrikes of terminators to get them where they need to be.
Vanilla Bikers are a hammer.
-Have more numbers and cheaper options of the rest of the list. With more bodies or just cheaper squads, you get more special weapons. You won’t be able to engage as early as Ravenwing and are a bit disadvantage in the scoring issue as termies don’t score and are not as flexible as the Deathwing termies are split into two different squads for Vanilla Marines.

My 7 Cents.

If your looking at playing a bike army, I suggest looking in the battle reports. I've posted 3 myself with my bike army, and others have posted them as well. That shows how they can play, and what you are looking at.
Here is my summary of the army.

The Good
* Your army is fast! Being able to move your army 24" a turn is incredible.
* Your army is tough! Warhammer has diminishing returns on weapons penetrating toughness. A bolter has a 50% of wounding a marine and 33% of wounding a biker. A lasgun has a 33% of wounding a marine, and 16% of wounding a biker.
* Your army destroys mech! With your army bristeling with MM and Melta, facing LR spam is a breeze.
* Your army can congo-line! Bike armies really benefit from the congo-line/lightbulb tactic.


The Bad
* A biker costs 25 points.. In the last 1500pt game I played, I fielded 37 models. For the same cost, an ork can play 150 models.
* And they shall know no fear : Except for plasma. That's pretty scary stuff.
* And they shall know no fear : Unless they fail a morale test and fall back 3d6" right off the board.
* Bike armies do not scale well past 1750 points.


The Ugly
* A bike army can cost quite a bit of $$$.

@labmouse42:

I agree, a 'pure' biker list doesn't scale well past 1750.
That's why you suppliment the list with the other options in the dex.

The Ugly:
Well, I don't know about others, but I'm doing a 'count as' chaos biker army.

I'm using WFB Chaos Knights as a majority of the 'bikers'...it's pretty economical.
The Ravenwing box set is economical as well.
It's only when you are purchasing biker squad from the biker boxes that hurts the wallet.....and attack bikes too...

My 7 Cents.

What do you do about objective games as well then? I was considering making a bike army, but when I thought about how objectives could be placed on the 3rd level of buildings and such the bikes wouldn't be able to capture it. That's why I thought about trying it as Eldar instead, because that would get around the infiltrators blocking the board edge and the objectives being on higher floors than reachable.

@Sanctjud

I agree you have to scale with other parts in the army list. I'm trying to think of what to scale with as the army list increases.
Take a 2500 points 'ard boys tournament. Here are my thoughts.
* Bikes take up a lot of board real estate. You need to supplement the army with hard hitting units that are small
* Dakka preds have lots of synergy
* Vulcan has lots of synergy
* LRs with assault termies have lots of synergy.

That being said, it starts to deviate form a pure bike army at that point. Bike armies do not scale well past 1750, at that point bike-hybrid armies are required.

@n0t_u
"The winner of a roll-off chooses a point on the table to be an objective" p91 BRB
Does being on a 3rd floor in a building count as 'on the table'? Does the objective need to touch the table? That sounds like a question for YMDA

@labmouse42
Eh..at 2500 we can replace Combat Tactics with something else, and yes, a hybrid-bike list is good.

I'm iffy on Vulkan even at that points range.

I have not thought too much of 2500.
Maybe full Assault Termy Squad and go with khan and tech marines in a biker squad.
Maximizing force concentration as I can.

@n0t_u
As to on different floors, what labmouse42 said: in addition, you just shoot the crap out of them, they will eventually die, even with 2+ cover saves with Scouts with camo cloaks or bolstered marines going to ground.

My 7 Cents.

Any toughness 3 models, even with a 2+ cover save will fall to massed TL bolter fire. Eldar Scouts < Marine Bikers.

Edit : The rules lawyers have stated that you can put objectives high in buildings or in areas otherwise difficult to reach. In the sample board below, you could place them on the flat part on top of the pillars. Not only would this prevent bikes from reaching them, but any unit that did not have the ability to ignore height when moving.

labmouse42 wrote:@n0t_u
"The winner of a roll-off chooses a point on the table to be an objective" p91 BRB
Does being on a 3rd floor in a building count as 'on the table'? Does the objective need to touch the table? That sounds like a question for YMDA

I meant for Seize and Control, I think. The one where both players get objective to place in their deployment zones. Or something like that, where the players get to place objectives, but they can't be within 12" (I think).