IG PBS vs SW's rules question

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**broxus**

As an IG player I am trying to think of ways to stop the Crazy OP psychic phase of the SW's. I have a question if this is a possible way to defend against it. Can I use a PBS to lower the leadership of Rune Priests so that they will have an almost impossible time to use their Powers and Psychic Hoods when they have to take their Pyschic/Leadership test?

**Nurglitch**

I don't believe that Weaken Resolve works in the following turn. Warhammer 40k has a convention by which "turn" means "player turn" and "Game turn" is used to refer to both the first and second players' turns.

I also believe that Rune Priests don't have Psychic Hoods and instead will dispel a psychic power cast within 24" of them on a 4+. Fortunately Psycker Battle Squad powers are both 36" range.

A nice proactive psychic stomping using a Soulstorm might work though. Even if you don't condemn the Rune Priest to Instant Death (supposing your squad has 8+ survivors), the Rune Priest and his squad might Fall Back.

Otherwise, just shoot him.

**Gwar!**

Ok, a few points:
1) JotWW is not That Strong, nor are any of the other SW powers. If the Rune Priest is within 24", he is within range of every single heavy weapon you can bring to bear.

2) Weaken resolve only works on your turn. When it is my turn my Ld is back to normal.

**sourclams**

Er, ignoring Weaken Resolve for the moment, the runic staff just says 'on a 4+'. There's nothing in there about opposed leadership tests ala the Psychic Hood.

**Orkeosaurus**

If you're really worried about it you can take an Inquisitor Lord with a psychic hood, but really, IG probably have the least to fear from the power. They mostly rely on vehicles for expensive models.

**Spellbound**

Yeah, as an IG player I'd be more worried about the space wolf scouts showing up behind you, all armed with meltabombs.

**Armandloft**

Long range, low AP weapons, my friend.

Of course, I plan on crying about how overpowered the IG are when I get to use Jaws of the World Wolf only 3 times in 50 games, and only take out 2 total models.

**Nurglitch**

I think there's a power or two that might be more useful against the Imperial Guard than Jaws of the World Wolf.

**Armandloft**

Oh, there probably is, Nurglitch. I'm just amused/mystified/irritated by how a 24" range power (regardless of its effects) is causing such terror. I can't wait for the codex to be a couple of months old so we can be over all this stuff.

**Nurglitch**

Stuff in a new Codex always causes wailing and gnashing of teeth though. Do you remember all the kerfuffle about Vanguard before the Space Marine codex came out? Months later they're in popular disrepute.

**don_mondo**

I think the reason there's such an outcry is that it re-introduces character/model sniping after the main rules pretty much got rid of it. But I don't think it will be that big against most armies. Nidzilla is gonna hate it, but most of the rest of us can shrug it off, altho I admit I won't like the puppy player to be able to specifically target my heavy weapons in the Infantry squads.

**Gwar!**

don_mondo wrote:I think the reason there's such an outcry is that it re-introduces character/model sniping after the main rules pretty much got rid of it. But I don't think it will be that big against most armies. Nidzilla is gonna hate it, but most of the rest of us can shrug it off, altho I admit I won't like the puppy player to be able to specifically target my heavy weapons in the Infantry squads.

Yeah, because only Space Wolves can do it. No Other army can. Space Wolves are so Broken because they have One ability can target specific models.

Oh Wait, Space Marines can do it too. So Can Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Imperial Guard, Black Templars, Daemonhunters, Witch Hunters, Eldar, Orks, Necrons, Chaos Daemons and Chaos Space Marines. But yeah, character/model sniping was, like, totally removed for 5th.

**The Defenestrator**

SM+Orks require a special character, which are automatically rule breaking and not worth discussing.
CSM/Daemons can do it extremely ineffectively with an expensive power. I've never seen it used.
Eldar is a good precedent, though very much inferior to the powers it competes with. Seen it once or twice out of dozens of Eldar games.

care to elaborate for dark/blood angels, templars, guard, daemon/witch hunters and Necron?

The point is, it's a way to easily kill things people are used to being able to keep alive, sometimes fairly effectively; PK nobs, IG heavy/special weapons and plague marines (gone on 4+), carnifexes (at best 4+, though usually 3+), even terminators, PF sarges and librarians are gone on 5+. But for the most part, it's combat effectiveness is unlikely to be much better a decent low AP gun. Though the exception of clumped infantry against a vehicle comes to mind...

**thehod**

Dont forget Vindicare Assassin.

**MinMax**

The Defenestrator wrote:care to elaborate for dark/blood angels, templars, guard, daemon/witch hunters and Necron?

Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Black Templars, Guard, Inquisition - Vindicare Assassin. Some of them may have more, but they all have the Vindicare at the very least.

Necrons - The Monolith's Particle Whip. All models under the template suffer a Strength 9, AP 3 hit that can be allocated as the defending player chooses. The exception to this, is whichever model is under the hole of the template. This model suffers a Strength 9, AP 1 hit. So, if I can get the hole of the template over your attatched character, said character suffers the hit.

**The Defenestrator**

oh right, forgot about the stupid Vindicare

I dunno if I buy that interpretation of the particle whip though. To me, it looks an awful lot more like the following:

final hit location is determined for the blast. All models hit take S9 AP3 hits. The one under the hole takes a S9 AP1 hit. Then you roll to wound, and THEN allocate.

remember, wounds are allocated *after* hits; meaning once you know the unit has or hasn't taken a S9 AP1 hit, and has/hasn't been wounded by it, you can allocate that anywhere you want.

**Eight Ball**

The Defenestrator is right, the enemy can allocate the Particle Whips' AP1 hit to anyone in the squad. Even the faq acknowledges this.

**Gwar!**

The RaW for the Whip is clear though.