Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello Dakka!

I'm in the process of creating an Imperial Guard army which can basically described as mechvets. My plan for the veteran layout looked something like this:

Squad 1
- 3x meltaguns
(Obvious aggressive AT unit)

Squad 2
- 2x flamer
- 1x heavy flamer
(Obvious aggressive AI unit)

Squad 3
- autocannon HWT
- sniper rifle/grenade launcher
(Defensive home objective holder)

Now, we know how hard three BS4 meltaguns can hit when deployed out of a 12" moving chimera. And we know that three flamers will wreck the day of any low-armour infantry that has the luck to be in range.

However, I thought about one thing over the last days: Wouldn't it be a viable choice to do something like

Vetsquad 1
- 2x meltaguns
- 1x flamer

Vetsquad 2
- 1x flamer
- 1x heavy flamer
- 1x meltagun

My reasoning behind this is: A smart opponent might be able to deploy his troops and act in a way that leaves the meltavets with infantry/horde, while the armour rolls up to the flamervets. Each of the specialized vet units is very good against something, but very inferior against something else.

By exchanging a meltagun and a flamer, both units lose some kind of their specialized firepower, but increase their chances at dealing with everything.

A quick example:

1. Tank approaches flamervets
With only one S5 weapon, the chances of destroying the thing by shooting is close to zero. The vets could assault with their krak grenades, but this will probably drive them out of cover, which will play to the opponents advantage. - If they pack a meltagun, they have a 12" range that tanks will try to avoid, simply because the probability of getting toasted just increased by a fair chance. If the vets can move without leaving cover, the chances of getting in 6" range and killing the tank goes up even against AV14.

2. TEQ approaches flamervets (maybe to scare off objective, bind in combat, contest)
One of my opponents fields a Shas'O that will probably be kitted out with Iridium armour, shield generator and stim injector. 2+/4++ FNP is nothing to laugh at with four wounds. The whole squad of flamervets rapid-firing and roasting away will score 0.37 wounds on average. The XV8 suit will laugh at that and blast away. - With a meltagun in the squad, there's a chance of 28% that the vets can INSTA-KILL that darned thing! The Shas'O will think twice before he moves near these guys. Same goes for other scary stuff, Terminators and the like.

3. Infantry approaches meltavets
Against infantry, the meltavets still have 13 las-shots at 12" range and the heavy meltagun shots, too. This is alright with their BS4, but with cover being everywhere, the meltaguns will only kill 0.28 models (of whatever infantry) per shot. Imagine what you could get by losing one of these meltagun shots and adding a flamer!
With some movement, you should be able to get at least 4 enemy models under the template. If you're aiming at guardsmen, that will kill 2.66 of the guys! That is almost TEN times as much as a single meltagun.

- - -

I have now layed out some examples of why I think versatility in vetsquads with flamers/meltaguns could be nice. Admittedly, there are drawbacks, as I mentioned before. However, I guess in this case the positive aspects - that the enemy needs to worry about both squads and act accordingly, instead of knowing that one is pure AT and the other almost pure AI - may outweigh the negative aspects.

What do you think?

Honestly I'm not a fan of veratility, I'm the kind of guy who makes his units do one thing and one thing only. i find the saying He who does tries to do everything acomplishes nothing. Yea your not trying to do everything and having some sort of contigency is a good idea. I would keep the 3 meltaguns in the origonal melta vet squad, and use its chimera to deal with any nearby infantry. HFx2 is not easy to shrug off, although from some of your previous posts you have already armed your chimeras with them. If your still playing those small 750 point games you might be doing it the right way. Your experiance in that point range is grater than mine.

Persoanlly with your home guard squad i would add gunny harker, give them a 3+ cover save, an extra mobile heavy bolter, and the ability to infiltrate or outflank.

I see a lot of people on this site posting veteran units with a heavy flamer, 2 meltaguns, and demolitions. This is what you're talking about taken to extremes, as the squad costs 140 points before vehicle. On the other hand, troops including MEQs will think twice about closing with you, vehicles can get messed up. I think one meltagun in a squad is a mistake, since when you shoot a vehicle, you have a high chance of fluffing it and wasting the other two special weapons' anti-infantry power. Likewise I'm against heavy weapons for mechansied units, having seen a friend try it in veteran squads in chimeras, they just aren't used much as you try and play agressively with the units.

here are some ideas for non-standard, useful loadouts:
HF, 2 meltas, demolitions - 140, as detailed above, expensive and destructive

2 plasmas 1 melta - 110, if you play against lots of rhinos full of marines?

3 plasmas, demolitions 145 - for use against a horde of marines, or light vehicles.

On reflection, only the top option there really impresses me. Whatcha gonna do eh?

Specilization.
Force Concentration.

2 melta guns are not 2 times better on squads, they are 4 times better.

With the focus on mobility, you can get them where they need to be and reap the benifits.

____________

Certainly there are units that can do both, or be flexible, but it's usually a case by case issue and not a general thing, at least for me.

Ie: Chaos Space marines or plague marines have enough bolters and Close combat attacks to hold their own against infantry, I suppiment them with meltas... they don't 'have' to use it, but it's there just in case, and when that just in case occurs they do a damn good job of it.