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Made in us
Focused Fire Warrior




Atlanta

Having a pretty good idea as to who will be participating in our local 'ard Boyz tomorrow, I expect something similar to this to come up. Maybe without the consequences (the character that will die after in my example), but it still affects my decision making.

Let's say we have the situation presented in the following diagram, with the blocks of X's being enemy cavalry, and the block of x's being enemy infantry (both facing downwards on the page), the O's being my infantry facing towards the X's, and the "C" being a character that I don't want in combat anytime soon. All the '.'s on the diagram are there for spacing purposes only.


XXXXX
XXXXX

. .xxxxxx
. .xxxxxx

. . . .C
. . . . . OOOOOO
. . . . . OOOOOO
. . . . . OOOOOO
. . . . . OOOOOO

It's the my turn. Infantry block O charges infantry block x, and has to go straight forward in order to get around the character and reach the charge. Character can't go through the combat, is march blocked, and can't move outside the charge range of the cavalry. His only hope of avoiding being run down is to stay right up against the combat, outside line of sight.

Here's how it looks immediately after that charge:


XXXXX
XXXXX

. .xxxxxx
. .xxxxxx
. . . . . OOOOOO
. . . .C OOOOOO
. . . . . OOOOOO
. . . . . OOOOOO

Looks like two O's are in base contact, 3 x's. Opponent then argues that the two units must be adjusted to maximize frontage (avoiding clipping, and all that jazz). My unit can't really move left without pushing the character into line of sight, giving him the luxury of being roadkill next turn. So the alternative is for my opponent to slide his, still making him roadkill. Either way, we end up with a clear charge after the adjustment:

XXXXX
XXXXX

. . . . . . xxxxxx
. . . . . . xxxxxx
. . . . . OOOOOO
. . . .C OOOOOO
. . . . . OOOOOO
. . . . . OOOOOO

Is this really how maximizing frontage is supposed to work? If not, what rule do I point at to say otherwise when I encounter these "adjustments" tomorrow?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/09/25 20:40:17


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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






San Jose, CA

See the BFB FAQ, first part, specifically the Appendix on clipping:

This may also happen during a charge, if the units are far apart, exactly at the maximum charge distance of the chargers (Fig. 1). This situation will make it impossible for the chargers to wheel, because any wheel would mean that they fail the charge. Therefore they will have to charge directly forward. Funnily enough, a very similar situation can occur when the units are too close and the charging unit cannot physically wheel enough to bring the maximum number of models in combat (Fig. 2).

In all these extreme situations, if you want to play literally by the rules, you have to live with the clipping and continue with the game.

However, you should also feel free to agree with your opponent upon any gentlemanly solution which could avoid clipping situations. The best solution is normally to slide sideways the chargers (or the unit that won the fight), in order to bring more models in to the fight. This is not technically allowed by the letter of the rules, but if both players agree to do this, the game will benefit in realism and fun (you get to roll lots more dice!).

"Maximize models in combat" does not automatically require sliding; it just means that if you have the movement available, you can't clip on purpose.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/09/25 20:50:59


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Made in us
Widowmaker





Virginia

The Appendices aren't rules...they even say so.

On page 21. of the rule book it says "If it is impractical to align a unit properly because of interposing terrain, other models, or whatever, then it is acceptable to realign the charged unit as well (or instead) so the battle lines remain neat."

I think Malecus, you have the right idea.

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Made in us
Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin





Livermore, Ca

if unit OOOO is the charging unit, then moving unit xxxxx seems very inappropiate. If after unit OOO charged, its best attempt to align up to the charged unit is off by a few degrees and due to other units in the way it can't possibly line up "neat". Then you change the angle of the charged unit so that they are lined up. Sliding, isn't part of what you quoted from the rulebook.

The after charge, should look like this.

. .xxxxxx
. .xxxxxx
. . . . . OOOOOO
. . . .C OOOOOO
. . . . . OOOOOO
. . . . . OOOOOO
   
Made in us
Widowmaker





Virginia

Sazzlefrats wrote:if unit OOOO is the charging unit, then moving unit xxxxx seems very inappropiate.
That doesn't work for me as it says differently in the rules.

There's a diagram on page 22 that shows a clip and the subsequent alignment. Which is almost the same extra movement as a slide. In that diagram only 2 models made contact and they were given extra movement and all aligned. Why would it not work if you came in at a less extreme angle?


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Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh






Dallas, TX

The rulebook says you move the chargers to align the most.

If you can't [terrain, enemy models, etc] then you move the unit charged.

This doesn't REALLY help, but when translated into Japanese [I played there for a couple years] it basically became "do what you have to do in order to get as many models fighting as possible" after the statement about aligning charge-ees. Clipping is pretty much so not fun, pointless, terrible, cheesy and downright silly that they'd rather disrupt the battle lines to make things into a decent fight.

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Made in us
[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

I believe that the passage Janthkin quoted from the FAQ/Appendix is applicable, given that it makes clear that Sliding to maximize contact is NOT strictly allowed within the rules as written.

The section about adjusting units due to other interfering factors (like terrain, uninvolved units, etc) is incredibly vague and broad. It can be used to justify all sorts of crazy adjustments and if too-broadly applied, can cause units to shift laterally extreme distances, creating bizarre situations and negating many of the benefits of using terrain and good formations to set up defensive positions.

IMO the situation outlined in the OP, with a CHARGED unit getting to shift several inches laterally, to its controller’s benefit, is an example of an extreme and unintended interpretation of the above passage.

IMO (again), the point of the “adjusting units” section is to allow units to line up in base contact and with their engaged edges touching and parallel, as opposed to being stuck touching at an angle because of obstructions. That’s (again, IMO) what they meant by cleaning up the battle line.


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Made in jp
Average Orc Boy





Kona, HI

It clearly says that you can move the charged unit as well if the attacker can not be moved.

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"You can't have everything is! Nothing isn't!"
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills






Manchester, NH

But that's for the purpose of getting the two units' fighting ranks ALIGNED. As in, touching in two parallel lines, as opposed to stuck only being in contact at one point, with one unit at an angle to the other.

It's NOT for the purposes of increasing the total number of models fighting. The sideways slide is specifically explained (in the online appendix) as "not technically allowed by the letter of the rules".

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