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Ok so i know fireknifte is the best all around, however I have noticed vs MEQ. That you need abit more punch or accuracy. So i have taken this to the extreme and want to know what you guys use for MEQ. I use TL Plasma rifles and a targeting array. I know you might think thats over kill omg, but I rarely dont have 1 connect and you can often make marines take leadership test with 1 squad firing at them. I do run some fire knives in that army but like to run 2 squads of said configuration. My other though is have all TL misslepods with targeting array. I just love rolling 4+ twinlink and then its like a 2+ to wound and they are dead for the rifles. 2 squads of rail rifles pathfinders is nice too. Anyway i want your opinions on my possibly crazy idea, or what do you do with meq. I always run with broadsides and 1 crisis team of fireknives so i can drop heavy and light armor.

If you need more accuracy, markerlight said unit.

So you wanna kill MEQs with your XV8s, huh?

Here are my top suits for the job:

Fireknife: 2 Str 7 shots and 2 Str 6 shots per suit when you're 12" away, when aided by Markerlights, can reliably kill about 2 Marines per suit, per round of shooting. When you're talking 6 Marines per round of shooting, at that range, the Fireknife is hard to beat, especially when you add in the transport popping capability. Keep in mind these numbers require +1 BS from a Markerlight.

Helios: You get a Fusion Blaster with a Plasma Rifle on this suit; the definitive Terminator hunter. Everything from this suit is going to force invulnerables, but you have to be 12" away for this to occur. Basically a great suit to hunt tanks and termies alike.

Burning Eye: TL Plasma Rifle suits. Really good and dancing with Marines and whittling them down. Will kill about 6 Marines a turn from 12" away. Very limited in scope though, as all it's good at is killing MEQs and TEQs, with no real purpose sofar as that. This suits major advantage lies in the fact that it can kill MEQs at the same rate as the Fireknife without the need for Markerlight support.


I usually take Fireknives because they can do a variety of jobs at least decently. Some people call this "jack of all trades, master of none", which is true, but what are you going to do when you bring Helios and Burning Eye suits to the fight against the Ork Horde? Killing two or three Orks per round of shooting isn't doing you much good there, is it? The Fireknife has the ability to kill MEQs well, and be able to put up decent (albeit there are many, many other things in the Tau codex that handle hordes better) numbers against hordes as well. The Burning Eye and Helios excel at killing the MEQ, but not so much the GEQs.

Fireknives MUST be supported with Markerlights against MEQs to boost effectiveness. Without at least a +1 to the BS, Fireknives and Helioses suffer. Burning Eyes can handle without Markerlights, due to their TL Plasma Rifles.

So, as the above poster said, Markerlight up whatever you want to kill, and then bring the hammer down. Tau is all about target priority and focusing almost all your firepower on one target until it is gone, then moving on to the next. To split your firepower too much as Tau is to invite defeat.

I guess so with the fireknives, I just dont like firing at 1 with with my marklights, because i like to mark up for my broadsides. If i can get them in a safe posistion at the begining of the game, I.E fortification or some other non assaultable set up, I put on them with a multitracker and just let em sit there and pumel vehicles and other any squad within 36" range. while i am on it does anyone think that TL plasmas on a broadside are worth it. I am indifferent because there is already a high chance of klling 3 of what ever unit you are firing at. OH and on my pathfinders i like to run a full squad with 3 rails rifles is this a good idea for MEQ i kill like 1 or 2 a round.

Twinlinked on XV8sis is not always worth it and all of the T'au players I have met agree. It is better to have another weapon to shoot then having one weapon twinlinked.

one of my favorite builds is a plasma rifle, missile pod (or fusion blaster), shield generator combo. 4+ inv and good against MEQs and vehicles up close. generally 2 suits with missile pods and 1 with the fusion blaster.

for the Shas'o i take a Clyclic ion blaster, plasma rifle and shield generator and a bodyguard with a plasma rifle, missile pod and generator.

they can mop up infantry while the other suits take on the MEQs and pop tanks.

some t'au commanders say shield drones instead of shield generators but i have never tried them so i don't know. extra wound but you will loose the save if the drone eats it.

my 2 bits

Ditch the Railrifles, you're bringing the PF for Markerlights. If you want str6 shots take the XV8 Plasma rifle and dont pay for an Devilfish. Always max. your PF squads because of the DF and at 1700+ take a minimum of 2 squads.
Always use your Fire Knifes and ML in Tandem, they both shine in this way. On average you'll hit a with 4 ML, use 3 to remove there cover save (if the squad doesn't have one it's not worth it to light them up) and one to boost BS. 4 Suits (3+IC commander) will kill about 5 Marines (or 3 Termies) this way with just the Plasma another 2 (1) for the Missles.

RogueFox wrote:So you wanna kill MEQs with your XV8s, huh?

Here are my top suits for the job:

Fireknife: 3 Str 7 shots and 2 Str 6 shots per suit when you're 12" away, when aided by Markerlights, can reliably kill about 2 Marines per suit, per round of shooting. When you're talking 6 Marines per round of shooting, at that range, the Fireknife is hard to beat, especially when you add in the transport popping capability. Keep in mind these numbers require +1 BS from a Markerlight.

Just to say that MP are only assault 2 not 3, in any case, Im a huge suit fan and I usually run this in my army:
HQ squad with fireknife: I figure the most expensive config might as well be on the best unit, missle pod, plasma rifle, target array, HW MT, HW DC, and a mix of drones for wound allocation.

Then in my 3 elites:
two deathrain with flamers instead of arrays

one firestorm for general horde killing

I find this works exceptionally well as an all-round list, I find that tau's biggest problem is horde as with deathrains, broadsides, HH and markerlights, vehicle popping never seems to be a problem. Love facin mech vet gaurd with 2 deathrain squads and watching my opponents face as he loses 2-4 transports/vehicles a turn...

Any more, i have been minimising my suits. I run a lot of vehicles and everybody knows it. Most anti vehicle weapons vaporise my suits in one shot. I got sick of losing all those points so fast, so i increased my piranhas and dropped down to two units of two Deathrains and a Deathrain shas 'el. In a slightly wierd twist, my last game against space marines, the flamers killed more marines than the missile pods.

If you use shield drones, then you will not get vaporized.
I am new to Tau ( around 20 games now with my 1750 point army ) and I have found pathfinders/fireknives to be the best punch we can get. 3 x 2 squads of fireknives with shield drones and a 3 suit deathrain squad with drones is wicked. 2 maxed pathfinder squads with 3 xv8 squads works very well.

VS horde, I really count of the hammerhead to thin them out and my maneuverabilty to avoid them until they are at managable numbers.

IMO, Fireknives are a little inefficient, since you really rely on the one plasma rifle shot for MEQ kills, and then the plasma rifle's not as good against the vehicles you hunt with your missle pod. Someone suggested Helios earlier, Fusion Blaster and PR, which is epic if you can really judge distances and play on a lot of boards that have terrain to JSJ behind. TL plasma is a good one, too. Plus, fireknives on the command squad don't seem as bad, since they can take TA, and hard-wire the multi-tracker.
I find that some MEQ squads can be eliminated with pure volume of fire. One FoF, with a little luck, can eliminate quite a big chunk from a tac squad.

I'd have to vouch for Deathrain suits.
Templates are good against MEQs and GEQs alike. And the missiles are strong enough to kill light vehicles on their own too.
Terminators will give you trouble though.
For the Shas'O (or El) have you considered Centurion suits? They're might not be as deadly to MEQs on average, but I find them very good as take-on-all-comers.

Darksword wrote:I'd have to vouch for Deathrain suits.
Templates are good against MEQs and GEQs alike. And the missiles are strong enough to kill light vehicles on their own too.
Terminators will give you trouble though.
For the Shas'O (or El) have you considered Centurion suits? They're might not be as deadly to MEQs on average, but I find them very good as take-on-all-comers.

Whats Centurion, pray tell?

@Razerous:

Taken from RevRanDom on the Advanced Tau Tactica Forums:

Centurion:
This crisis suit commander derives it's name from the even 100 point configuration cost. The Centurion build is a Shas'El equipped with a plasma rifle, the cyclic ion blaster, a targeting array (TA) and a hard-wired multi-tracker and is primarily used in an anti-infantry role.

The Centurion build is an 'El with Plasma Rifle, Cyclic Ion Blaster, Targetting Array and HW Multi-Tracker. Why? Because it costs a flat 100 points. It's a nice random suit and with 7 potential AP2+ BS 5 hits, it will kill most infantry you send it after. However, beware the 'random' part of the sentence.

Pretty much what I would say, RogueFox explained nicely. You just can't go wrong with a Fireknife suit for most situations.

However, I find that Cover Saves present moreso of a problem than the Marines themselves. Sure, 3-4 shots are nice but only 1-2 penetrate their armor AND they still might get some kind of save anyway. I'd rather fire 5-7 shots into some Marines and watch them miss just on the sheer amount of saves they have to make.

That's why I myself go for volume of fire. Two Firestorms (BC+MP) and a Deathrain squad serve my purposes nicely. I usually leave the 'absolutely must hit' Plasma Rifle job to my BS5 'Els and 'Os. This way, I'm prepared for most armies and can kill most things with relative effectiveness.

What about a centurion commander with plasma/burst cannon crisis suits, with 4 gundrones to boot.

Totally focused design, high ROF anti-troop with decent heavy infantry killing potential.

Fire Knife x3(MP,plas,mt) = 201 x2 = 402 no upgrades or anything

or

3 squads of Deathrain @ 3 members w/ Twin misile pod, bonding knife , flamer for wound allocation. @ 416

Its whatever you like. I can take 15 suits for the cost of 3 squads of fireknifes.


Then when a plasma cannon shot hits the fireknife squad you lose 1 guy and I lose nothing if it scores 2 wounds that is.

Wound Allocation is a freaking beast.

Hollismason wrote:
Fire Knife x3(MP,plas,mt) = 201 x2 = 402 no upgrades or anything

or

3 squads of Deathrain @ 3 members w/ Twin misile pod, bonding knife , flamer for wound allocation. @ 416

Its whatever you like. I can take 15 suits for the cost of 3 squads of fireknifes.


Then when a plasma cannon shot hits the fireknife squad you lose 1 guy and I lose nothing if it scores 2 wounds that is.

Wound Allocation is a freaking beast.

Whats your point? Plasma rifles give you rapid-firing AP2 firepower. Its more expensive. If you want protection, get some drones.

Ehhh Fireknifes??

I don't understand why everyone thinks fireknives are such great builds. They aren't even completely MEQ. If you really want MEQ killers, go with either TL PR, or Helios. I'd even agree with Centurion, even though I normally distrust CIB. Fireknives need markerlight support, rely on a lack of cover that is rarely there, and are usually used for a job that the missle pod is bad for. Plus, they usually rely solely on the plasma rifle, and usually from way out of rapid-fire range, so they get one shot that has a 41.6% chance of killing one marine (no markerlights or cover). Fireknives are pathetically inefficient for anti-MEQ, and one of the most expensive builds around. My eternal advice: DON'T TAKE FIREKNIVES!!!!

I'm new to Tau but i would have to agree that the FireKnife model is underwhelming. The Plasma Rifle is woefully expensive, and the missile pod doesn't break their 3+, so screw it. What I've been doing (at least trying to do) is work out a combo with pathfinders and sniper drone teams against MEQ.

The pathfinders fire their MLs at said tac squad or whatever, then the sniper teams use them to boost their BS or remove pesky cover saves. I usually have 4 MLs on the target. It usually mean 9 shots, 6 hit, cover gone (usually, 6 dead marines). MLs are also useful for tipping pinning tests, using 3 or 4 to make someone pass a test on a 5 usually keeps them down. Sometimes I'll try this strategy, but it fails more often than not (especially against marines or any high Ld unit)

Like I said I'm new, and I'm lacking a good defense against green tide and the like besides hammerhead pie plates. I've been thinking of Crisis Suits with TL flamers and burst cannons, maybe some gun drones for a tiny boost in firepower. People seem to be down on this and I realize why, if you dont wipe out the unit (no small task when up against 30 boyz), you're gonna get shot at and charged the next turn, which you can't have as a Tau player. I don't like the cyclic ion thingy, its too random and if you don't roll a lotta 6's then its really not too effective. Strength 3 to boot? I don't buy it.
-Any better suggestions for anti-horde crisis suits? Or should I just forget that altogether?

Whats the best ROF suit?

Somthing that uses gundrones, burst cannons (BC), CiB, Airburst fragmentation projector (AFP) and either missile pods (MP) or plasma rifles (& as its ROF over AP, I suggest the former).

More shots benifits more from any markerlight hits given to the squad which gives great gains aswell as being more widely effective.

Is it cost-effective, though?

Commander + CiB, MP, Targeting array*, HW-multi-tracker (MT), HW-drone controller & 2 gun drones.
1st suit + MP, BC, MT
2nd suit + MP, BC, MT
3rd suit + MP, AFP, MT, team leader, Hw-drone controller & 2 gun drones

299pts with 8 str7 shots, 10 str5 shots, 1 str4 pie, 5 str3 shots (with infantry rending, essentially) so a total of 18 str5+ shots and a str4 and 5 str4 shots.

300pts of stealthsuits (Open comparison here) nets you 30 str5 shots but you can have @ max 6 suits = 180pts = 18 shots.

Thoughts?

*Targeting array is for when the squad doesn't get any markerlight hits. Redundancy, essentially

Overall you have to balance you suits out. Wound Allocation is nice but at the same time each of your suits should have a job to do.

Deathrains kill vehicles. They wipe the floor with Rhinos. I always take a flamer just in case someone gets too close.

Firekives are the best all around suit because they give you some MEq killing power but also give you the ability to best a rhino to get the MEq out. It's a 1-2 punch that gives you 3 shots at 24". You can then jump back to 30" and behind cover.

I run a squad of each of these. Why? They give me all around power to do multiple jobs and cover each other from long range (36"). The problem is that you have to support your suits with the rest of your army. Crisis suits are not something that does everything. They are your elites but they cannot succeed on their own. Tau are a combined arms army.

With twinlinked weaponry you will be scoring a majority of hits. Broadsides have a 75% hit percentage for their railguns. Unless the dice are not your friends you will be popping tanks left and right.

I usually load my commander up with anti-horde/anti-GEq weaponry and deck him out with defensive upgrades. I use to run the CIB but the randomness of it got to me. I have had much better luck with the AFP. A Large blast that denies cover and will rarely ever scatter is amazing. If you blast a transport then follow up with this you'll be nailing a squad that is bunched up and getting more hits than the CIB.

For protection the Iridium Armor (if you know how to correctly JSJ) is amazing. The D6" assault move can hurt you but you are still protected with the 2+ save. Add a shield drone and stim injectors and you will be shrugging off hits like it's nobodies business. In the past few games I've only lost a shield drone of my commander and have never had a wound put on him.

That is probibly the best tournement build with its versatility but most people will be doing one or the other.

personally(i say this from a paper build, not having played in any) i belive that redundency in the list for a tourny can keep you from relying on one perticular unit. with all the intermeshing and interdependency that the diffrent T'au units have on each other that can be difficult but shows up in crisis suits more then the other units.

again i havn't ever been in a tourny with my T'au but that's my paper plan.


My $1.7976

ok this is what i have gleaned from this whole post, and from what i have experienced. OK so the reason i originally put on twin linked plasma rifles with bs 5 on all suits was that i wanted 3 wounds on a meq each turn per squad. Now sure you can miss, but its very low chance of missing and quite honestly you wont miss. I recognize its low shot but its on par for wounds. The big thing i can see with the deathrain build is the number of shots while moving and at 36 inches at indirect fire. I haven't fought termies yet but i really have no idea how to kill them other than do the same plasma rifle set up. I have found that as many marklights as you can get on a target the better. So i am buying more pathfinders definatly, however I feel that Fof is viable for dropping 12 in rapid fire to drop 24 shot on a marklight target with 5 counter 3 to take cover away and 2 to get them bs 5. I'm sorry but that's a dead squad of marines. I always have broadsides and always have marklights for them. I guess if you have a fireknife team marklights for them they become your best suit. We all know tau have the best guns but if they arent hitting every turn and often what good are they.

FoF won't do much against a squad of Termies. Sure you might kill one - maybe two if you are lucky. At least that's my opinion. I prefer having high shot count with low AP.

Then again I rarely hit with my markerlights and prefer railrifles in my pathfinder squads to help take out Marines.

Plasma rifles are pretty much the only option t'au have for taking out termies, ( but if the marines are running Assault terms with TH/SS you are soooo screwed ) Rail rifles are good for taking the regular marines out though

short story is T'au only have 2 guns that can take terms down(plasma rifles,fusion blasters) and those have very few shots

Don't use railguns on termies, if you do; the landraider that you should have shot will be in your face on turn three and will rape you along with every thing else that came with/behind/in it

Personally I take Fireknives and and Deathrains.

For people bagging on the Fireknives, you really need to have pathfinders to use them effectively. You join a 3 man Fireknife unit with your Fireknife Commander, and with the help of the markerlights you laste waste to that big CC termy squad that just jumped out of a landraider.

With out them you are toast.

I crunched some numbers. This is the most effective Battle suit configuration at destroying Meqs.

Crisis w/ Twin-linked Flamer + Black Sun Filter (34 points aka the cheapest suit you can get)

I kid you not.

= .33 wounds (per Meq hit) - max 3.3 wounds (assuming 10 models hit)

Compare to all these popular configurations...

Versus Meq's at Rapid Fire range

Crisis w/ Twin-linked Plasma + Target Array (65 points)
= 1.48 wounds
Crisis w/ Plasma + Fusion + Multi-tracker (62 points)
= 1.25 wounds
Crisis w/ Plasma + Missile Pod + Multi-tracker (62 points)
= 1.11 wounds
Crisis w/ Twin-linked Fusion + Target Array (53 points)
= .74 wounds
Crisis w/ Twin-linked Missile Pod + Target Array (53 points)
= .49 wounds

By hitting just 3 models, twin-linked Flamers beats out Deathrain and Fireknife. Hitting 5 marines and twin-linked Flamers beats out twin-linked Plasma.

Yes but these weapons are totally independent from markerlights with to-hit and cover not being an issue.

Its a very good point, though. Swap around the TL-fusion & flamer to a TL-flamer + fusion, and you could well be in for a great suit to drop in (perhaps via the positional relay/PF devilfish combo!).

At best...

Crisis w/ Twin-linked Plasma + Target Array + Markerlight hits (+1 BS and all cover negated)...
= 1.62 wounds

Twin-linked Flamers still only has to hit 5 Marines to beat that. But that's not even the main point. Compare...

Crisis w/ Twin-Linked Flamer + BSF = 34 points

Crisis w/ Twin-Linked Plasma + TA + 5 Markerlight hits (statistically 10 Pathfinders to up BS and remove all cover from 3+ save) = 125 to 185 points.

Twin-Linked Flamer doesn't even need markerlights to make it effective - saving those for the pesky Land Raiders coming down or for that Dev squad in cover.