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Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

US: Chinese drywall makers may ignore suits
Lawyers fear Chinese drywall makers may ignore US suits; ways sought to collect future damages
By Cain Burdeau, Associated Press Writer
On Monday September 28, 2009, 2:21 pm EDT
Buzz up! 0 Print
NEW ORLEANS (AP) -- Lawyers representing U.S. homeowners and homebuilders who used drywall suspected of causing corrosion and possible health risks say they expect Chinese companies that made the wallboard to ignore hundreds of lawsuits filed against them in U.S. courts.

So, who's going to be on the hook for any damages courts might award?

That's the pivotal question for lawyers as they pursue about 300 lawsuits in U.S. District Court in New Orleans that allege a flood of defective Chinese drywall was sent into the United States after a string of hurricanes in 2004 and 2005. The material is known to decay, creating corrosive chemicals and fumes.

Among tactics lawyers are considering are suits against U.S. investment bankers who financed the Chinese companies, and seizing ships that brought the drywall to the United States.

This would not be the first time Chinese companies have ignored U.S. liability suits, said Russ Herman, a lead plaintiffs lawyer in the drywall litigation.

"They've done that with toxic edibles, with toys, with (blood thinner) heparin, milk, you name it," Herman said.

Kerry Miller, lead lawyer for the defendants, agreed. He represents U.S. homebuilders, drywall installers, distributors and Knauf Plasterboard Tianjin Co., the only Chinese company that's recognized the lawsuits so far. The defendants want Chinese manufacturers to respond in court because they, too, are seeking damages from the drywall makers.

Miller said Chinese companies are able to dodge service in U.S. courts.

Last week, U.S. District Judge Eldon Fallon found one Chinese company, Taishan Gypsum Co., in contempt of court for ignoring the suits.

The lawyers said Chinese companies are virtually insulated against liability in U.S. suits because suing them through international court is costly and time-consuming and civil judgments in U.S. courts are not enforced in China.

Jonathan C. Drimmer, a partner with Steptoe & Johnson LLP, a Washington, D.C., law firm that specializes in international litigation, said that historically plaintiffs lawyers have avoided suing foreign manufacturers. Lawyers "won't pursue an action if they don't see a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow," Drimmer said.

"This is not a typical U.S. drug problem case, a U.S. environmental case, this is different. We're all being forced to think outside the box," Miller said. "It's very difficult to resolve this complex situation when you only have a fraction of the parties in the court."

Herman said plaintiffs' lawyers were up to the challenge. "I think we can bust the dam in this case," he said.

He said making that happen could involve attempts to obtain damage payments by seizing vessels that brought the drywall to the United States if they return to U.S. ports and even going after Wall Street investment banks with a share of ownership in the Chinese companies.

"We've got financial institutions in the United States that have substantial investments in these companies that caused these problems," Herman said. He couldn't say which U.S. financial institutions could be sued for damages.

Miller said lawyers are considering asking courts to seize vessels that delivered the drywall.

"It's an interesting concept and if it can work to get the attention of these other Chinese companies, that's what needs to be done," he said. "Getting the missing parties to the table" was paramount, he said.

But seizing vessels -- known as an "in rem" action, which often involves filing a lien against a vessel -- and going after shareholders would hardly be easy, said Mark Ross, a Lafayette, Louisiana, lawyer who specializes in maritime law and civil litigation.

"My gut reaction is that that could be a bit of a stretch. In rem could be seen as a severe action, seizing a vessel, tying it up for a day," Ross said.

"How do you go about identifying what vessels to seize?" Ross said. "How do you seize a vessel for merely transporting cargo, which they might have been required to take by law."

A ship owner could sue if the seizure were deemed too aggressive, Ross said.

As for going after investors, Ross said that too was far-fetched. "Smart money says that's not going to work. A shareholder? Probably not. I don't know if that exposes them to liability."

Still, Herman remains sanguine.

"You're talking about billions of dollars" at stake, Herman said. "We're going to find some ways to make them responsive."


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/US-Chinese-drywall-makers-may-apf-3798734385.html?x=0&.v=4

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Why does this not come as a shock to me?
   
Made in us
Steady Space Marine Vet Sergeant







I for one welcome our new chines overlords.

-to many points to bother to count.
mattyrm wrote:i like the idea of a woman with a lobster claw for a hand touching my nuts. :-)
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Ha, and people take offense when Americans bitch about Chinese products. Sure as hell hasn't been Taiwanese or US toy makers poisoning children by using lead paint in kids toys.

This is no shock and just more proof that we need to stop creating jobs for the Chinese and get the work back over here in our Country.

/facepalm

--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.

“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I agree. We do need to stop outsorceing all out damn jobs.

   
Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





About to eat your Avatar...

I agree as well, I would gladly work for pennies on the dollar every day. That sounds like a superbly fulfilling lifestyle. I hope that many people in the U.S. will soon be able to gain employment that can maintain the low prices of all the goods we have come to expect in our daily lives...

Another option is to not buy chinese products... wait... that may be difficult, but paying 2-3 times more for the same product, especially when it won't kill me sounds pretty good. This I have to admit.

My main question, is how this stuff made it into the marketplace to begin with? How... in the... frakking hell.

"Note"
As more and more companies are pushing their bottom line over to asia and any low cost-labor counterparts; I think the main question is what (if any) of these products we actually need. More precisely, how cheap do they actually need to be? If we start building up industries in the U.S. again, you can be sure that costs will skyrocket... until people stop buying the expensive stuff, and just end up demanding cheaper and cheaper goods... all over again.


 
   
Made in us
Rampaging Furioso Blood Angel Dreadnought





SC, USA

At some point the Chinese disregard of the safety of their products will allow their inherent dangers to rise high enough. They don't give a gak about their own people, what makes us think they care about ours?
   
Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





About to eat your Avatar...

What makes you think that "our people" care about "our people", when tripe like this makes it into our market? I simply do not understand what you are implying.


 
   
Made in us
Hooded Inquisitorial Interrogator



Seattle, WA

grizgrin wrote:At some point the Chinese disregard of the safety of their products will allow their inherent dangers to rise high enough. They don't give a gak about their own people, what makes us think they care about ours?


Agree.

The Chinese culture is to earn as much money as possible while screwing over your neighbor. They could careless about any lawsuits since the US justice system can't reach them in China.
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

Maybe I'm horribly naive, but doesn't our trade agreement with China have some provision for stuff like this? And if it doesn't, why not?

I'm a pro-globalization guy, mostly because globalization is force of history instead of something you can really adopt or reject, but I'll never understand why we dont' get tougher on stuff like this. Well, I guess it's because the other countries allow our farm subsidies, but there has to be more to it than that.
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Polonius wrote:Maybe I'm horribly naive, but doesn't our trade agreement with China have some provision for stuff like this? And if it doesn't, why not?

I'm a pro-globalization guy, mostly because globalization is force of history instead of something you can really adopt or reject, but I'll never understand why we dont' get tougher on stuff like this. Well, I guess it's because the other countries allow our farm subsidies, but there has to be more to it than that.


Er...no they usually don't.
You can sue here and go after assets here. Lets see they don't have assets here so...
You can try to sue in Chinese courts if those courts permit jurisdiction (where your Q comes in). Good luck with that.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Steady Space Marine Vet Sergeant







We do need to stop outsourcing some jobs though.
like phone helpers. i cant tell you how many time i call a company service and be greeted by people that sound like they are from my local 7-11.

-to many points to bother to count.
mattyrm wrote:i like the idea of a woman with a lobster claw for a hand touching my nuts. :-)
 
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

garret wrote:We do need to stop outsourcing some jobs though.
like phone helpers. i cant tell you how many time i call a company service and be greeted by people that sound like they are from my local 7-11.


The humor here isn't the Mencia grade stereotyping of Indian people working at the 7-11.

The humor lay in the irony of basically saying "when you outsource jobs, they go to people just like those in my neighborhood."
   
Made in us
Wing Commander




The home of the Alamo, TX

Don't see much of the logic in not trying to get these issues resolved in a respectable manner. If the Chinese drywall companies try to escape responsibility won't that just hurt their reputation and their sales figures? Its worthy to note that at least one of them has manned up to the charges though.






 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Cane wrote:Don't see much of the logic in not trying to get these issues resolved in a respectable manner. If the Chinese drywall companies try to escape responsibility won't that just hurt their reputation and their sales figures? Its worthy to note that at least one of them has manned up to the charges though.





They don't have a reputation. Plus many of the companies that bought it no longer exist, so they kinda don't ahve a reputation either...

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

It's difficult to say how much the Chinese companies will accept responsibility for such QA failures.

It does highlight that cheapo Chinese stuff isn't really as cheap as it seems. You need to beef up inspection standards (costs money) or be prepared to chase the manufacturers in foreign courts (costs money.)

Or eat it, rip out the Chinese stuff and put something better in.


I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
Wing Commander




The home of the Alamo, TX

Frazzled wrote:
Cane wrote:Don't see much of the logic in not trying to get these issues resolved in a respectable manner. If the Chinese drywall companies try to escape responsibility won't that just hurt their reputation and their sales figures? Its worthy to note that at least one of them has manned up to the charges though.





They don't have a reputation. Plus many of the companies that bought it no longer exist, so they kinda don't ahve a reputation either...


Ah, well in that case hopefully justice will be served.



 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





For what it's worth, there's problems with American-made gypsum board too. If it's made with synthetic gypsum, which most of it is, it's a byproduct from burning coal for electricity. It costs about $20-25 a ton to landfill. So the utilities are always looking for ways to either 1) make some money on it or 2) give it away for free. While coal has some impurities, it's typically not a lot. But, if each ton has a teaspoon of mercury, and you burn 500 million tons a year - it adds up. And then the mercury is at a higher concentration in the waste product (synthetic gypsum, fly ash, bottom ash - it's all based on particle size).

Now, I wouldn't be shocked if Chinese sheetrock has higher concentrations of contaminants.

I'd like to know what are the standards for contaminants in sheetrock. Does the Chinese material exceed the limits in any sort of regulations? If it doesn't, then I don't see how there's a case. If it does, and US Customs allowed it to come in anyway, then these seems like it's the government's fault. If it does and the Chinese claimed that it didn't, then I see how they're liable.

In the dark future, there are skulls for everyone. But only the bad guys get spikes. And rivets for all, apparently welding was lost in the Dark Age of Technology. -from C.Borer 
   
 
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