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Hello all, I've recently come back and resurrected my Tomb kings army (no pun intended) after a 3 year hiatus. I havent had any games however but I have an oppurtunity to trade my 3k pt TK army for a 3k Dwarf army. Though my TK army is partially painted, I am somewhat curious to how I would like a dwarf army.

Anyhow, the question at hand. How are TK and/or Dwarf armies faring these days? Which would be considered more competative? I dont plan on doing any large GT type tournies but I would like to have a good showing at my LGS.

I understand the fundamentals of both armies, but since I have no experience using them in v7 I am slightly hesitant to give up my Skellies.

Any thoughts and opinions are welcome.

Dwarves don't move much. They just shoot and stop magic. They can usually force a tie. If that appeals to you then get them. TK are far more tactical and usually require the whole army to work together as a whole.

Tomb Kings are FUN! New book coming out some time next year too I think.

Tomb Kings are FUN! New book coming out some time next year too I think.

I've been trying to play maneuver dwarfs since I got back in to 7th edition. It is painful. All these deathstars and super-hitty units flying around are very difficult to avoid, as you can't really set up your fights. I have this idea that if anyone ever really took blocks, you might be well off, but otherwise, shooting is really your main strength for Dwarfs. And people complain if you go heavy with that.

This isn't to say you shouldn't consider Dwarves, just know what you're getting in to.

RZ

I very much appreciate your comments (keep em coming, I have a few days to consider which way to go) and am still torn. I like the idea of having a fortress of lil stunty tough guys shooting lead into the enemy, however I am still quite concerned about being outflanked. I never had that problem with TK but TK is somewhat unforgiving, lose one or two key units and its game over. Lose your heirophant and sayonara....

What does however gives me pause is the idea that TK may come out with a new codex next year, if that is true, then i'll stick with them. Otherwise I am kinda leaning against my gut which is to give the dwarfs a chance. Given that they are mostly pewter (from what I recall I think) the dwarfs may be financially advantageous to keep (for trading purposes in case I dont stick to fantasy and focus on 40k)

Here is my thought, with dwarfs they can shoot very well and have some long range hitting power, i'd reckon to say that you would have 1-2 good rounds of shooting before getting into CC. Once the enemies have reached my lines, I can still have a good fighting chance. On the other hand, with TK (if all things being equal) i'd have the same amount of shots but by round 3 my skellies will be crumbling to nearly any charge. Granted I havent had much experience with chariots since it always seems like they are an "all or nothing" type of unit. If the charge doesnt break the enemy then its bye bye chariots...Dwarfs dont have that problem...but then again they have no fast units outside of the gyrocopter.

GRRRRRR I know this may sound idiotic, but I dont know what to do lol

Dwarf's are by far the best Warhammer Army

Point for point, they have the Best Standard Troops (8pts per model) for WS4, T4, Ld9. The Best Armour with Gromril and even without armour (Slayers) are Unbreakable

Warmachines with runes provuide the fire power that no other army can match.
Organ Guns have always been the apple of my eye by handling anything nasty that the enemy can through at them.

Even though they are slow/ static army this only proves that they are important, as people come to you and not the other way round.

Basic tactics blow them up using a combo of crossbow fire, grudge throwers and organ guns and then destroy whats left with blocks of troops.

Anyone else care to chime in on Pappa's comments? A healthy debate is always good

Stand around or back up and you easily tie dwarfs every time. The war machines can't do enough damage to bridge the tie/win gap.

Walking into a gun line is not fun and it's probably not very fun to play one either so why bother? That's the big problem with dwarfs.

The thing about dwarfs though is their gunline is different than others, as they're more dependent on it than others. I vote for Dwarfs, honestly because I don't think they get much respect.

Though, if you want to play Fantasy for its "Tactical Masterstrokes", Then I'd say Tomb Kings.

Dwarfs, on the other hand, can make an absolute mess of so called "tactics" (Gunlines ruin any type of fancy deployment, and gunlines should instead worry about things that move fast and fly.)

I'd stick to Tomb Kings. My brother almost began them, and I looked through the army book and I was like WOW.
Made me want to begin Tomb Kings. Good that I didn't though.

Pappa Shango wrote:Dwarf's are by far the best Warhammer Army

Point for point, they have the Best Standard Troops (8pts per model) for WS4, T4, Ld9. The Best Armour with Gromril and even without armour (Slayers) are Unbreakable

No... Just No. As it's a case with the wood elves ab which also was published around the same time, the armycreep has hit several 7th edition armybooks that have came out since. You really need not look further than the top3 armies of uncomped fb today (DoC,VC,DE) and see that they offer a pretty tough match up for the stunties (especially Daemons & VC).

That's not to say that dwarves are really bad or anything. The current armylist just makes them a bit one-dimensional which is imho their biggest negative. To the OP I'd say that both armies are in the middle pack where competiveness is considered, altough is has to be noted that TK offer more tactical depth.

Pappa Shango wrote:Dwarf's are by far the best Warhammer Army

Point for point, they have the Best Standard Troops (8pts per model) for WS4, T4, Ld9. The Best Armour with Gromril and even without armour (Slayers) are Unbreakable

I have several times made dwarf players really unhappy by slaughtering their slayers with skink blowpipes. The lack of armour makes them go down faster that (insert euphemism here, x3). True, tactics, movement, generalship, etc..., but just keep it in mind as another small part of the puzzle you are piecing together.

Bat Manuel wrote:...Walking into a gun line is not fun and it's probably not very fun to play one either so why bother? That's the big problem with dwarfs.

I have walked into that gunline and can indeed attest it is truly Not Fun. But I whomped 'em. Fast movers, give him more targets than turns to shoot at them, and they are done.

Another vote for Tomb Kings. Way more interesting than Dwarves for reasons already described.

Very good points to all of you, in my personal experience with TK was that going shooty without any front liners who could take a charge AND hit back hard was been very frustrating. I supposed that is the reason why I considered dwarfs at all. They appear to be a fun lot however given some of the points made here and with a lack of actually playing them has given me more pause to fully consider them over my TK. I've decided to stick with my "olde armee" and try out units that I havent given much practice (ushabti, bone giant, tomb guards, etc) haha, I just named the top 3 hardest hitters in the TK lineup!

I want to thank you all for your input, please post any other thoughts if you feel that dwarfs are better tactically over TK and give a reason. I am open minded to these things and always enjoy a good debate.

Tombkings can outshoot any army and outmaneuver any army.

First of all, if you are making a cheasy list, 2 ssc can effectively fire 4 times a turn and a good size archer unit always hitting on 5s is very good. The thing that gives TK an edge against other shooty armies is carrion, tombswarms and tombscorpions taking out shooting units/warmachines so enemy has to just sit there and get shot up while losing their warmachines or come to you and fight on your own terms.

Then there are always the nice flank charges and rear charges TK can set up easily.

TK are the most reliable army too, their troops are immune to psyche, cause fear and are unbreakable. Their magic never miscasts and you always know your spells. You always know how things can pan out and plan accordingly. With dwarves, if you fail a cluch LD test it's game over.

On a side note, I've won games where I've lost my heirophant (actually I still usually do) because my general is a TK and LD 10 used for army in range which should be everything and anything not in range usually has good LD anyway like tomb scorpions and ushabti or chariots (with ld 8 the lowest amongst those 3).

Codices come and go, as do rules editions. Dwarves are not the most competitive army now but they have and always will retain the best fluff in the game if that matters. 2010 will reportedly see a new rules edition and it certainly cannot make dwarves any less competitive than they are now.

olympia wrote:Codices come and go, as do rules editions. Dwarves are not the most competitive army now but they have and always will retain the best fluff in the game if that matters. 2010 will reportedly see a new rules edition and it certainly cannot make dwarves any less competitive than they are now.

Gah I wonder if I came to late to the game (no pun intended), I just bought the 7th ed collections rulebook for 50$....

Anyhow, I have an update. I kept my TK and helped my buddy sell off his dwarf army. I won 2 of 2 games with my 2250 army, I am very happy I kept them and even more excited about the upcoming (tentative) armybook.

For as long as Dwarfs are M3, they will be one dimensional.

That's why they need to win in the Deployment Phase and keep it a win once the dice start rolling.

I think I personally would choose dwarfs over tomb kings, since I like dwarfs better than skellies . But it does sound like tomb kings might be more tactically fun to play! And probably have a new army book coming out