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Ok, we have four pages of debate on this subject, and it doesn't appear that there is a clear, definitive answer to the question of whether or not Wolf Scouts my use their "Behind Enemy Lines" rule if joined by an attached Wolf Guard.

This stems from the fact that there are no rules that address what happens if you attach a model purchased from one entry in the FOC to a different unit purchased from another entry in the FOC.

How do you plan on playing it, and why?

Disclaimer: This is a poll on how you plan on playing it. The debate as to RAW/RAI is in another thread, and I'd prefer not to gum up this one with a rehash of material from the other thread. And, as always, please keep it civil

Saldiven wrote:
This stems from the fact that there are no rules that address what happens if you attach a model purchased from one entry in the FOC to a different unit purchased from another entry in the FOC.

there are, and its on page 81 of the Space Wolf Codex:

"Any special rules that apply to the models in the unit are listed here"

the Wolf Guard joins the unit, and thus gains the special rules.

Demogerg wrote:

Saldiven wrote:
This stems from the fact that there are no rules that address what happens if you attach a model purchased from one entry in the FOC to a different unit purchased from another entry in the FOC.

there are, and its on page 81 of the Space Wolf Codex:

"Any special rules that apply to the models in the unit are listed here"

the Wolf Guard joins the unit, and thus gains the special rules.

Once again, this location is not for addressing rules issues; as the four pages of debate on the other thread indicate, not everyone agrees with your interpretation. Please do not gum up this thread with off topic issues, and keep the rules debates to the thread dedicated to them.

Please, for the purpose of keeping this thread on topic with the stated intent, restrain your posts here to how you plan on playing it with a brief explanation as to why.

Saldiven wrote:
How do you plan on playing it, and why?

I kept my post short and concise, and I answered your question. Please do not berate me for doing so.

EDIT, double post.

I have no basis in the rules on how I plan on playing it. Just a heads up.

The Wolf Scouts with an attached WG will keep Behind Enemy Lines. It's why the WG can't be on a bike, have a jump pack or be in terminator armor. Because that isn't very stealthy.

Oh, and for the record, I also believe they should keep the "Behind Enemy Lines" ability, but my reasoning is purely fluff/practicality based, rather than on any rules that may or may not support the position.

It just makes more sense to me that way.

Needs a third option;

"It is impossible to tell with the rules given if a wolf scout squad with an accompanying wolf guard model can make use of the "Behind enemy lines" rule. "

Razerous wrote:Needs a third option;

"It is impossible to tell with the rules given if a wolf scout squad with an accompanying wolf guard model can make use of the "Behind enemy lines" rule. "

this is not a rules debate though, if you were playing against a space wolf player, would you allow it or no?

I am a long time Space Wolf Player, and I would say No, because I do not believe the rules allow for it. There is nothing stopping you putting a WGBL into a Scout Squad and deploying normally, you just cannot use Outflank, Scouts or Infiltrate, because the WGPL does not have those rules, as he has only Joined the unit, he is not a member of it (i.e. he is not a Wolf Scout).

Bear in mind I would LOVE to be able to continue to do this, but I honestly feel the rules do not allow it, and no amount of nostalgia will change that IMO. YMMV ofc.

Demogerg wrote:

Razerous wrote:Needs a third option;

"It is impossible to tell with the rules given if a wolf scout squad with an accompanying wolf guard model can make use of the "Behind enemy lines" rule. "

this is not a rules debate though, if you were playing against a space wolf player, would you allow it or no?

I'd flip a coin per game.

Razerous wrote:I'd flip a coin per game.

How is that an acceptable solution? Why not just flip a coin to see who wins?

Does this really need another thread?

-GK

GiantKiller wrote:Does this really need another thread?

-GK

The other thread is a debate on the wording of the rule. This thread is to determine how people play in Practice. (I voted A)

Gwar! wrote:

GiantKiller wrote:Does this really need another thread?

-GK

The other thread is a debate on the wording of the rule. This thread is to determine how people play in Practice. (I voted A)

Thanks for backing me up on the purpose of the thread, Gwar!

I think it's interesting, thus far, how evenly split the "How Will You Play It" poll is. Not only is the RAW somewhat suspect to people, the actual game play is split.

Usually, the "How You Play It" polls are much more polarized.

I would allow it/play it that way. I would definitely bring the issue up with my opponent before any dice are rolled, and see if he agrees or not. I don't think it's a game breaker either way.

My reasonings for going this route are:

1. Fluff-wise, it would make sense that the scouts are being led by someone they know and trust. Otherwise, they'd tell him that they have a Thousand Sons Infiltrator on their flank and that the Wolf Guard needs to go bring him out of cover. The scouts would then deploy as normal, leaving poor Heimdall to look for an invisible indiltrator.

2. It's consistent with my thoughts on the Valkyrie. The Valkyrie keeps its special rules regardless of passengers.

I'm makin' da call!

I would allow my opponent (who plays the puppies) to retain this rule, if he ever put the scouts in the army. lol

So yeah, "B".

Saldiven wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

GiantKiller wrote:Does this really need another thread?

-GK

The other thread is a debate on the wording of the rule. This thread is to determine how people play in Practice. (I voted A)

Thanks for backing me up on the purpose of the thread, Gwar!

I think it's interesting, thus far, how evenly split the "How Will You Play It" poll is. Not only is the RAW somewhat suspect to people, the actual game play is split.

Usually, the "How You Play It" polls are much more polarized.

correct. this is truly how would you as a player play an actual game, and secondarily why.

In that case, I vote B for the reasons outlined in this thread.

-GK

I say yes as the intention isnt to hamper the player through with inaccuracy within the rules but in fact make sense and the game a enjoyable enviroment.


Wolfguard are not independent characters and do not follow the rules for them they are attached to the squads.

Gwar! wrote:

Razerous wrote:I'd flip a coin per game.

How is that an acceptable solution? Why not just flip a coin to see who wins?

It is the only 'fair' course.

There is nothing to say you can. There is nothing to say you cant. It is a powerful combo.

In terms of the permissive debate.. its more of a case of; theres nothing to say what happens when X happens. X does happen yet it isnt accounted for when it obviously needs to.

Flipping a coin to see who wins is just totally pointless and inflammatory Gwar! Behave

Guys, you can all relax. I made the call, it's cool.

Gentlemen, and I use that term loosely for you vagabonds, lets remember the Dakka Rules and keep this focused. Posts have been deleted that did not FOLLOW THE TOPIC. Continued posting of OT posts will be reviewed for disciplinary proceedings.

Oh and we can relax, RxGhost made the call...