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Question: Can a unit equipped with a non-networked markerlight declare a seeker missile at their target?

According to the Tau codex, non-networked markerlights can only be used by subsequent firing units. However, under the rules for the seeker missiles, it says that only a markerlight equipped unit can activate the seeker missile.

Just looking for some clarification on this.

Thanks in advance for any help.

What that means is that a non-networked markerlight must score a hit, then a second unit that has a markerlight calls the missile, from the information provided (the Tau codex is one of the few I despise and refuse to read ).

From what it seems, the options are:
Non-Networked Markerlight = a second unit can call the Seeker, but must have a markerlight as well
Networked Markerlight = the unit firing the markerlight can call the Seeker.

OK, that helps me adjust some things in my army list.

Thanks for the quick reply!

crazyK wrote:OK, that helps me adjust some things in my army list.

Thanks for the quick reply!

Gwar might be correct in this case, I will have to grab my codex and do a bit of reading...I suggest you talk to your opponent first though about having it only be a single non-networked markerlight...it would be a pure RAW clusterfunk to have to play 2 Markerlight shots for a Seeker...

I wish the rule was that clear. I have come across several interpretations. The first issue is, I think, does the missile fire in the firing phase of the unit calling in the missile or during the phase when the vehicle is activated?

P.30/31 clearly states that any marker light equipped unit can call in a seeker missile. This I presume, would over ride the need for the networked one.

The rules on P.29 for a non-networked ML, clearly state that the ML marker hit can be used by any subsequent firing unit. One possible source of conflict.

The rules on P.30/31 seem to contradict each other as to when the missile is fired. Last paragraph seems to imply the missile may fire in the vehicle's phase. Another possible source of conflict.

I have usually explained the conundrum to my opponent and have offered the solution that it be fired as per P.30/31 in the marker light firer's phase. It avoids a lot of other complications.

The interpretation offered by Gwar is one I have not come across before. It certainly makes those one shot missiles even more difficult to use if you need 2 ML equipped units to fire at the same target in order to use the SM!

I am disagreeing with Gwar's interpretation in this case as well.

The key to this whole mess is in the Seeker missile rules on page 30-31 (emphasis mine):

"Ordinarily, the vehicle carrying the seeker missile has no control over them and cannot launch them itself. The mechanism is remote and responds only to markerlight users. The missiles may always be fired, each at different targets if relevant, regardless of the distance the vehicle has moved or whether it has fired any other weapons. They may also be fired if the vehicle has suffered a Crew Stunned vehicle damage result."


And of course the markerlight rules on page 29 (emphasis mine):

"Each time you hit a target unit with a markerlight, put a counter by that unit. . .Counters may be expended by subsequently firing Tau firing at the 'marked' unit. Every counter expended grants the firing unit one of the following effects, which may be combined: To allow a vehicle to fire a single seeker missile at the marked unit. This shooting is resolved normally in all regards at an assumed Ballistic Skill of 5."



So what does this all tell us?


A) The VEHICLE actually counts as firing the Seeker Missile, although it cannot normally choose to do so along with its normal firing, a markerlight hit MUST be expended in order for the vehicle to fire the Seeker missile.

B) Some people may be thinking 'but the rules say only SUBSEQUENTLY firing Tau can utilize markerlight hits. But that's where the colored text in the first section comes into play. A vehicle is ALWAYS allowed to fire a seeker missile using an existing markerlight hit. . .even if it has already fired its weapons.


So anytime you have a markerlight hit on an enemy target, you can expend that markerlight hit to have the vehicle fire a Seeker Missile. But to be clear, this is the VEHICLE firing the Seeker, it does not fire along with the rest of the shooting from the other unit that actually scored the markerlight hit.

yakface wrote:
I am disagreeing with Gwar's interpretation in this case as well.

The key to this whole mess is in the Seeker missile rules on page 30-31 (emphasis mine):

"Ordinarily, the vehicle carrying the seeker missile has no control over them and cannot launch them itself. The mechanism is remote and responds only to markerlight users. The missiles may always be fired, each at different targets if relevant, regardless of the distance the vehicle has moved or whether it has fired any other weapons. They may also be fired if the vehicle has suffered a Crew Stunned vehicle damage result."


And of course the markerlight rules on page 29 (emphasis mine):

"Each time you hit a target unit with a markerlight, put a counter by that unit. . .Counters may be expended by subsequently firing Tau firing at the 'marked' unit. Every counter expended grants the firing unit one of the following effects, which may be combined: To allow a vehicle to fire a single seeker missile at the marked unit. This shooting is resolved normally in all regards at an assumed Ballistic Skill of 5."



So what does this all tell us?


A) The VEHICLE actually counts as firing the Seeker Missile, although it cannot normally choose to do so along with its normal firing, a markerlight hit MUST be expended in order for the vehicle to fire the Seeker missile.

B) Some people may be thinking 'but the rules say only SUBSEQUENTLY firing Tau can utilize markerlight hits. But that's where the colored text in the first section comes into play. A vehicle is ALWAYS allowed to fire a seeker missile using an existing markerlight hit. . .even if it has already fired its weapons.


So anytime you have a markerlight hit on an enemy target, you can expend that markerlight hit to have the vehicle fire a Seeker Missile. But to be clear, this is the VEHICLE firing the Seeker, it does not fire along with the rest of the shooting from the other unit that actually scored the markerlight hit.

And this is how I have always played it, seen it played, and have heard that it has been played. Not that this means much, but experience counts for something!

Please note, I did say that I am working only what was posted in the thread. Upon reviewing the full wording as provided by Yakface, I am going to have to agree with his view here.

I think the key here is, the seeker missile rules do say that only markerlight users can call them, but the full phrase is:

"Any model equipped with a markerlight may request a seeker missile salvo as detailed in the markerlight rules."

and, as Yakface pointed out, the Markerlight rules simply say a marker can be expended to "allow a vehicle to fire a single seeker missile at the marked unit"

So, I think in this case, the phrase is mostly fluff, the actual rules part of the sentence is essentially "the rules for firing seeker missiles are part of the markerlight rules" and the stuff about markerlight users requesting the firing is fluff.

I may be wrong but this is how it seems to me.

I'm still confused, because I may have seen it played incorrectly.

So, unit A fires at a target and puts two marker lights on the target.
Unit B fires at that same target and the Tau player elects to use the marker lights to call in missiles. Unit B has ten shots.

So, Yakface's statement is that the ten shots from Unit B would be resolved as one batch, and the two missiles would be a second batch, for various things like wound allocation and the countering of cover saves?

solkan wrote:I'm still confused, because I may have seen it played incorrectly.

So, unit A fires at a target and puts two marker lights on the target.
Unit B fires at that same target and the Tau player elects to use the marker lights to call in missiles. Unit B has ten shots.

So, Yakface's statement is that the ten shots from Unit B would be resolved as one batch, and the two missiles would be a second batch, for various things like wound allocation and the countering of cover saves?

Yakface is saying unit two isn't calling them in at all, and I would agree, the tokens can be expended at any time to allow the tank to fire a seeker missile which is a totally seperate round of firing to either the tank or the unit that got the markerlight hits or anything else.

Or atleast thats how it sounded to me, apologies if I misunderstood Yakface.

solkan wrote:I'm still confused, because I may have seen it played incorrectly.

So, unit A fires at a target and puts two marker lights on the target.
Unit B fires at that same target and the Tau player elects to use the marker lights to call in missiles. Unit B has ten shots.

So, Yakface's statement is that the ten shots from Unit B would be resolved as one batch, and the two missiles would be a second batch, for various things like wound allocation and the countering of cover saves?

Using a markerlight to fire a seeker missile means that the VEHICLE fires it, so it wouldn't be resolved along with another unit's shooting.


Just think of it this way:

Using an existing markerlight hit that is on an enemy unit allows a vehicle with a Seeker missile to essentially make a 'bonus' shot, that isn't done along with the vehicle's regular shooting and can be done even after the vehicle has already fired (or isn't normally able to fire).


So in your example, yes the Seeker missiles would be resolved separately from Unit B's firing because you are dealing with shooting from two different units: Unit B and the vehicle firing the Seeker Missile.