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Full disclosure: I dislike the (what I regard as silly) Space Wolf fluff and despise the hairy, fanged, fur wrapped Space Wolf models. However, I'm pretty excited about the new SW codex. One of the main reasons for this is that it's probably the best fit as a proxy army for my much loved Squat army that I've seen in years. Not only is it a good fit, but it also promises to be a highly effective army with lots of choppy close combat goodness.

Looking over proxy/counts as options for the Squats after picking up my hard copy of the list this afternoon, I got to looking at the Lone Wolves entry. While certainly not being world beaters, I think they might have their use on the table. To this end I am considering adding a couple of new models to my Squats.

My idea is to pick up a couple of WFB Dwarf slayer models (you know, the orange haired, half naked, suicidal dwarves) and do some conversion work to make some interesting "counts as" lone wolves. A Squat version of the Dwarf Giant Slayer certainly fits the Lone Wolf Fluff after all. The end result might be akin to the "cyber-slayers/beserkers" that featured in the canceled redesign of the Squat models that saw very limited release at the start of 2nd edition: http://www.polycon.org/squats/unID2ndEd.html (well, given my limited modeling skills, who knows how they will actually turn ou!)

This brings me to my question. Given that the conversions will take some time and work, I'm only going to make a couple of these. What do you think the optimized weapon/gear load out for Lone Wolves is? The only caviat is that for obvious reasons, I need to avoid utilizing terminator armour on these.

TR

I feel you need to keep them cheap.

But Termy armor and all those sweet upgrades make it expensive, but for full of awesomeness.

To maximize their rules, you want them to be threatening to all those units that he gets re-rolls against.....so It feels like he's a cruise missle.

Thunderhammer, Fist, Chainfist: he goes after MC's and Tanks, even the T5 infantry.

But if you focus on just infantry than claws or Frost blades.

There was a discussion about lone wolves, and a number came up.... I don't fully endorse it, but it sound good: 50.

50 points is roughly what I want to spend on a single model ( roughly the cost of a speeder or attack bike). You don't want to over do them unless you have something very specific in mind.

Power wpn+ Plasma Pistol is viable maybe toss in melta bombs.
Just a thunder hammer or fist.
Frost blade + Melta bombs.
2 Claws.

You want him to die in KP and kill stuff in objective games, win/win if you equip him with stuff that is threatening and will put him in dangerous situations.

The balancing factor? He only has he feet as delivery. Or robbing someone of their ride.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My original idea was T Armor, chainfist, and stormshield...not sure about the viability though, but seems all badass.

Lone Wolf - 80
Chainfist; Terminator Armor; Stormshield

TADA!

Stick 2x Fenresian Wolves with him if you want for +20.

He won't die easy and he will hurt. Use him mostly to protect infantry as a mini-mc.

Cheap all-round Infantry fighter = Mark of the wulfen & 2x Wolves = 65pts

Tank hunter/Heavy infantry fighter = Termie armour, combi-melta & melta bombs = 55pts

Tank/Monsterous creature hunter = Termie armour & powerfist 55pts

Damage soaker = Termie armour, stormshield, 2x wolves = 90pts (But then whats wrong with 6 wolf scouts that can "behind enemy lines". )

Trench-Raider wrote:The only caviat is that for obvious reasons, I need to avoid utilizing terminator armour on these.

Why? The old squat termy equivalents (can't remember their name) were cool - you mean you can't get them any more? Or converting a normal termy into a squat equivalent wouldn't be that difficult - i've seen some very nice 'high-gravity' short marine conversions.

Modelling aside, termy armour would make a Lone Wolf much more survivable - to me he's most valuable if he survives a couple of turns and gets to shhot/fight more than once, that changes him from being a mere speedbump to a serious problem which your opponent has to worry about.

I like the other posters' ideas re possible loadouts, an anti-personnel version and an anti-vehicle version would make a lot of sense.

Honestly, the Storm shield synergizes with the two wounds, FnP and eternal warrior too much to not take it. I would probably cast my lost with Tank/Monster killer.

Although, any "real" CC Monster is going to cut down two wounds before he can do any real damage. 3++ or not.

The lone wolf is kind of a confused model, but I think considering the backstory and Monster slayer rule, it's probably meant to fight MC's.

Another vote for chainfist, T-armor, stormshield.

@EzeKK:
I like that build too, but it's a bit pricey.

He won't die easy and he will hurt.

True statement.
BUT, isn't that a contradiction to want him not to die?

I was thinking, keep him cheap and killy, so his loss in objectives isn't so bad...and then you are a bit closer to killing him in KP missions.

But, I guess it's a difference in usage.
I'm thinking of using them as a cheap but lethal unit as a distraction.
You are using him as a wrecker.
But it seems the wrecker makes sense for the Lone wolf.

TDA is to get acces to the chainfist, which is really good on him vs. MC's and Dreads, no doubt about it, but I feel the cost is pretty hvy for that kit, as good as it is.

I'm torn between the coolfactor+powerhouse vs. cost.

Storm Shield, Wulfen.
Reasonably cheap, makes him good vs both infantry and MC's/ICs.

i'd go ultra cheap on them. in my army, they would be a distraction to attract fire from the things that'll really damage the opponent (like terminators). i'd give them mark of the wolfen and nothing else (35pts). for 105pts i've got 3 units that can soak up lascannon fire as well and tie up shooty squads for a turn or two in close combat. i plan on taking logan so my WG will be troops and i won't miss the elite slots.

Not sure Logan gets you 3 more slots though. The WG just count as Troops, not may be taken as a Troops choice. Not sure how the difference in wording plays out :-/

Even so, a two wound power armor model isn't that scary, even with FNP. A round of rapid firing bolters plus the inevitable melta in the squad should see him off. Easier than killing a squad of 2 plague marines. And 1 power armor guy will not draw fire from the termies that can wreak much more havoc.

I am not sure the Chainfist is that great either, as any Pfist squad makes him go squish sans stormshield. Any actual CC unit chews right through him.

I think he is more of a force multiplier to help in CC with other struggling units lik GHs. Kind of like a roaming choppy IC that you don't have to worry about giving up KPs. So maybe run him behind the rhinos. Or the Fenrisian wolves.

@Sancjud

The Lone Wolf is there to basically take on ANYTHING that gets in the way. Dual Carnifexes, Ork Mob, whatever. The thing about him it that I wouldn't be afraid to send him into a massive mob and hell he could probably bog down an ork mob for a turn and take out a couple giving my GH time to get into position and rapid fire the hell out of it.

The main reason I like the expensive Lone Wolf varient is because I want him to act as a mini-character. Now, if you just want them for support, giving him MotW or something and Meltabombs can just make him a decent support unit, but if you make him too light he's not using his MC killing power and is kinda wasting points there.

I have no play experience with them. but they have saga of the beast slayer, which points a big hairy finger at chainfist or thunderhammer.

If you hate MCs, thunderhammer, if you hate walkers chainfist.

You'll need termie armor for the chainfist. I think termie armor would be a nice upgrade for a unit like this.

He has FNP, eternal warrior and 2 wounds. With a 2+ save, he actually has a chance of beating an infantry unit. With no invuln and a 3+, he's probably not capable of taking on any serious unit with 10+ models in it.

For me, the clear winner is termie armor chainfist storm shield, with thunderhammer a close second.

With your caveat of no termie armor... then thunderhammer... but with no invulnerable save, he isn't going to survive the MC he wants to hit with his Thammer.

Taking anything that isn't a thammer or chainfist doesn't seem to intimidating to me. You burna valuable elite slot for him, i think you need to make him a force.

jmurph wrote:Not sure Logan gets you 3 more slots though. The WG just count as Troops, not may be taken as a Troops choice. Not sure how the difference in wording plays out :-/

Even so, a two wound power armor model isn't that scary, even with FNP. A round of rapid firing bolters plus the inevitable melta in the squad should see him off. Easier than killing a squad of 2 plague marines. And 1 power armor guy will not draw fire from the termies that can wreak much more havoc.

I am not sure the Chainfist is that great either, as any Pfist squad makes him go squish sans stormshield. Any actual CC unit chews right through him.

I think he is more of a force multiplier to help in CC with other struggling units lik GHs. Kind of like a roaming choppy IC that you don't have to worry about giving up KPs. So maybe run him behind the rhinos. Or the Fenrisian wolves.

With a 2+/3+ save and FNP you have to get through a lot even for bolters. For a 10 man squad of marines (lets say Meltagun / ML) shotting at a single lone wolf (and ignoring the rest of the army AND that means they are out of their Rhino so the TWC will eat them alive) they would:

rapid fire >> 16 shots >> 10.67 hit >> 5.33 wound >> .89 get through the terminator armor >> .44 get through the FNP (WOW isn't that effective /sarcasm)
meltagun >> 1 shot >> .67 hit >> .56 wound >> .37 get through the Storm Shield.

*BTW the missile launcher would only add .09 of a wound. Not really helping huh?*

So the tac squad has caused .81 wounds on the Lone Wolf! And now they are in charge range. Lets factor the Lone Wolf in CC!

Lone Wolf Charges >> Marine used bolter so 1 attack >> 11 attacks (+1 for sarg) hits on 4+ >> 5.5 hit >> 2.75 wound >> .46 get through terminator armor >> .23 get through the FNP save.

So after all that the tac squad has caused > 1.03 > a wound! So after all those attacks they will average a single wound. This is looking fantastic!

Lone Wolf strikes back!
Charged >> 3 Attacks >> WS5 >> 2 hit >> 1.67 unsavable wounds.

So after all that the Lone Wolf comes out on top and wins combat and now that tac squad is a sitting duck.

Sorry bud bud but numbers says the Lone Wolf not only survives the shooting but ends up doing more wounds than the marine squad. Remember also, he is an eternal warrior. Sorry but no ID for this fella!

A lone wolf is basically a cheaper Wolf Guard Battle Leader.
You can have two Terminator/chainfist/shield ones for 10 points more then a single WGBL equipped with the same options.

The only downside is they have to walk, but each will give you a 12' zone where MCs will fear to tread.

Ezekk- Please read my post. I was specifically referring to a power armor LW. The Terminator one is, obviously, much more survivable (except to plasma and the like) and SS even more so.

Yeah, he is rather slow - no transport/jumpack/infiltrate etc options that I can see, alas, so he's going to have to run forwards from your deployment zone, keeping to cover until he closes with the enemy. In the initial turns at least, he'll be mostly there as a potential threat, perhaps even as a meatshield/distraction as your enemy tries lascannoning him to death (intead of shooting your other units). That's another reason to like termy armour - he's more valuable the longer he can stay alive, even if he never reaches combat and merely soaks up fire.

jmurph wrote:Not sure Logan gets you 3 more slots though. The WG just count as Troops, not may be taken as a Troops choice. Not sure how the difference in wording plays out :-/

yeah, i posted in that thread. call me simple but i think GW worded this fine. counts as troops = troops for ALL intents and purposes. if they wanted restrictions, they would have put them there (like the wolves in the same codex that count as troops but don't score). i'll be playing it the plain english language way.

yeah, i posted in that thread. call me simple but i think GW worded this fine. counts as troops = troops for ALL intents and purposes. if they wanted restrictions, they would have put them there (like the wolves in the same codex that count as troops but don't score). i'll be playing it the plain english language way.

Except if you read the ork codex you see why there is a difference and why its not the "english language"

WG are most definatly elites that count as troops for scoring purposes.. The ork warboss says "May take Nobz as a troop choice". That is drastically different than "counts as troops"

Kirasu wrote:

yeah, i posted in that thread. call me simple but i think GW worded this fine. counts as troops = troops for ALL intents and purposes. if they wanted restrictions, they would have put them there (like the wolves in the same codex that count as troops but don't score). i'll be playing it the plain english language way.

Except if you read the ork codex you see why there is a difference and why its not the "english language"

WG are most definatly elites that count as troops for scoring purposes.. The ork warboss says "May take Nobz as a troop choice". That is drastically different than "counts as troops"

Using your same logic, Pedro Kantor's Special Rule "Hold The Line!" says "your sternguard veteran squads are scoring units."

There is your precedent for elite choice scoring units.

wolf guard are troops on the FOC if you buy Logan.

exactly. there are plenty of things GW needs to make clearer... this is NOT one of them. they ARE troops. that is what "as troops" means.


http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=69066&d=1252341071

oh, look... GW seems to agree with me, stating that they "are troops" under the description of logan grimnar. i repeat, they "are troops". while their promotional materials are not rulebooks (making them as official as their faqs), they agree with the normal, not-looking-for-problems plain english reading of "counts as troops". so now we have a rulebook that says "count as troops" and advertising that says "are troops"... and the "no" camp has "but it doesn't match the wording in another codex exactly and there is only one way in english to specifically state this according to us". things are looking good for the loganwing players out there.