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I just downloaded the new version 3.2a, after not using my older copy for over a year. The first thing I noticed was a strange point calculation error for the IG CCS unit. It's 50 points. Add a heavy weapons team and it drops to 43 points, subtracting 12 points and adding 5 for the mortar (it should be 55 points with a mortar team). Has anyone seen this? I downloaded the latest 40K 5E update using the software, but I haven't imported or changed anything else.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Never mind. I see it's a bug:

http://forums.wolflair.com/showthread.php?p=33164

There's some money well spent.

Lol. Yes, I am so shocked and appalled that the whole $0 you spent on the 40k files has gone to waste. I suggest you sue them for all they are worth!

Protip: Lone Wolf don't make the datafiles, shmucks do it in their free time, for free. If you don't like it, write the files yourself.

My subscription was expired, so I had to re-subscribe, so I am out money.

blackdiamond wrote:My subscription was expired, so I had to re-subscribe, so I am out money.

And that has to do with the 40k File writers... how?

Army Builder is a product. It comes in a box and is sold in stores. It promises to perform a task, that is, manage your army list. Do I care where the data comes from or whether there's a community of volunteers? I'm not *buying* open source software, I'm buying a commercial software package that's tasked for a single purpose. That purpose is not fulfilled with the product because the company is relying on volunteer code monkeys to work for free while they take in the cash. It's an unacceptable situation, especially when the implementation is only partial or flawed. Now you're providing bad service, as opposed to not supporting an implementation.

Worse, as a store owner, what happens when the customer returns this item to the store? Once you've installed and registered the software, you've *fouled* that copy for anyone else to use. Yet, the software itself does not work as promised, by any customer service definition. The store owner will likely eat that copy.

Sorry, but the software works just fine. The fault is in the datafiles which lone wolf do not produce. If you don't like it, tough tits. Read the EULA next time eh?

As a store owner, you say "Lrn2read" and use your right to refuse the refund, as it is neither unfit for its purpose nor defective.

In case you were wondering about the folk that do the datafiles, here is their forum page. You can see links to the bug reports and other issues users have.

For the sake of staying out of litigation with GW, Wolf Lair has to maintain no official GW data. This is how they work around it. They also wait a month before adding the files for a new codex, to help insure that the program isn't being used as a workaround to not buying the book.

As Gwar! has put it, you can go into the files and edit them to your heart's content. If I so chose, I could go and start making files for the Space Wolves. Far too much work, so I'm willing to wait. Your life may have more time available for such pursuits.

The fact that they charge $40 for army builder is preposterous. I like the program but I would never pay that much for what seems like a program made by volunteers. I'd say the program is worth $15 at most. And maybe $5 a year for the license.

JourneyPsycheOut wrote:The fact that they charge $40 for army builder is preposterous. I like the program but I would never pay that much for what seems like a program made by volunteers. I'd say the program is worth $15 at most. And maybe $5 a year for the license.

Well don't buy it then? Or code up a competing program?

This is like saying; "It is Words fault I only got a D on the paper I used it for".

It's a bit like spending $200 on Microsoft Word only to realize that the English language module for Word isn't working. As soon as Microsoft's legions of volunteers fix the English language module, the program will be useful once again. Until then, stop complaining and write you documents in Spanish. Or use Notepad. Or write a word processor yourself. Comprende?

Hmm, no, it's actually nothing like that, but thanks for trying.

Bookwrack wrote:Hmm, no, it's actually nothing like that, but thanks for trying.

I agree. It's closer to buying Microsoft Word then complaining the word file you opened is written in Spanish.

You are not buying the datafiles, you are buying the software to manipulate those datafiles. If the datafiles are non existent or broken, that is not Lone Wolfs fault.

Why, because you say so? Lets try to reason this out. You pay a high price for a product to discover that it doesn't work as advertised. The publisher takes no responsibility for it, pointing to volunteers. The same process that insulates them from legal liability is also a fatal flaw in their business model. If you download some open source software package and the open source bits don't work, no harm. If you purchase a commercial package, you expect these things to be resolved.

blackdiamond wrote:Lets try to reason this out. You pay a high price for a product to discover that it doesn't work as advertised.

Whut? How do you think Army Builder is advertised? It is advertised as making Army Lists. Not "THIS MAKES 40k LISTS WITH 110% CORRECTNES!!!121!!!!!"

Again, read next time before buying. Or, make the Datafiles yourself. Lone Wolf give you a FREE download to write them, so there is no excuse for whining.

There is an expectation with any product that it works without errors or problems. Army Builder can't promise that. Therefore it's a poor product. It's that simple. They either "own" their data files to ensure accuracy or they change their business model so the expectation is different.

blackdiamond wrote:There is an expectation with any product that it works without errors or problems. Army Builder can't promise that. Therefore it's a poor product. It's that simple. They either "own" their data files to ensure accuracy or they change their business model so the expectation is different.

Or, you could read before buying? They did not deceive you in any way, you were just stupid. It's like if I buy a Cucumber and then demand my money back because I thought it cooked Muffins.

blackdiamond wrote:They either "own" their data files to ensure accuracy or they change their business model so the expectation is different.

Except, y'know, for the fact they CAN'T. What allows us to have AB at all is that they make the database software but have absolutely no professional interaction with the datafiles. If you don't like that setup, take it up with GW.

Wow, Blackdiamod, you are way out on the hairy edge.

The program itself functions perfectly well. The error lies in the datafiles.
The datafiles are not provided by Lone Wolf, nor do they promise you to supply you with the datafiles.

Please take a second to actually realize how this system works.

From a customer perspective, why should I have to make a distinction between code coming from the publisher and code coming from some guy on the Internet? Also, the fact that Army Builder imports this code directly, without my intervention, consent or input makes me think their legal protection is tenuous at best.

I already write code and make my own army lists; it's called Microsoft Excel. Army builder offers something better, something packaged, presented, and sold by one company that's easier to use. I wasn't being sold an "army file front end," I was being sold "Point-and-click army construction. Create armies and have Army Builder calculate points costs and fully validate them."

Anyway, the whole point of my original post was much simpler than this. I want to use Army Builder for Imperial Guard. It doesn't work for Imperial Guard yet. Damn, I wish I hadn't bought it. Is that so unreasonable?

blackdiamond wrote:From a customer perspective, why should I have to make a distinction between code coming from the publisher and code coming from some guy on the Internet? Also, the fact that Army Builder imports this code directly, without my intervention, consent or input makes me think their legal protection is tenuous at best.

Huh? Which code? It imports NOTHING unless you give it:
Permission to access the Internet
Permission to download the Datafiles
Permission to use the datafiles

So in short, you have no clue what you are talking about.

Anyway, the whole point of my original post was much simpler than this. I want to use Army Builder for Imperial Guard. It doesn't work for Imperial Guard yet. Damn, I wish I hadn't bought it. Is that so unreasonable?

No, what is unreasonable is you whining that it doesn't work in the first place, because it does work for the Imperial Guard, just like it works for any other game system. Just because the datafiles XYZ wrote do not work, does not have anything to do with Lone Wolf. If you want to use it for Imperial Guard, look, they give you a free tool to write datafiles! How amazing! Write them yourself. I have already written them for my new Space Wolves. Stop being so lazy.

blackdiamond wrote:I already write code and make my own army lists; it's called Microsoft Excel. Army builder offers something better, something packaged, presented, and sold by one company that's easier to use. I wasn't being sold an "army file front end," I was being sold "Point-and-click army construction. Create armies and have Army Builder calculate points costs and fully validate them."

I do not see "Warhammer 40k", "Imperial Guard" or "Correctly" anywhere in that sentence. Nor does it in any way imply they support Game XYZ. It lets you build armies, and that is what you may do. If your games Datafiles don't work, that's the datafiles problem, not Lone Wolves.

As I said, if you feel so strongly about this, crack out whatever Programming Language you want (I recommend Java) and write yourself an open source competitor.

First, are you like 12 years old, or what?

Second, the Army Builder interface does all the fetching. There's no need to *manually* visit sites and update files. That's what I'm referring to. You CAN do this, but it's not required. That's where I question if they really limit their liability.

Third, the IG files are wrong. They mis-calculate heavy weapons teams. That's worse than not existing. I wouldn't buy it if I knew IG was missing, nor would I blame them for it.

blackdiamond wrote:First, are you like 12 years old, or what?

No, but clearly you are, if you resort to name calling because you are losing a debate.

Second, the Army Builder interface does all the fetching. There's no need to *manually* visit sites and update files. That's what I'm referring to. You CAN do this, but it's not required. That's where I question if they really limit their liability.

It gives you an option to do the fetching, for whatever Datafile group wants to be added. In case you didn't know (or more likely could not be bothered to check) each datafile group has to manually update their info with Lone Wolf, who provide this "Autofind" as an option. So, Lone Wolf still has nothing to do with the Datafiles.

Third, the IG files are wrong. They mis-calculate heavy weapons teams. That's worse than not existing. I wouldn't buy it if I knew IG was missing, nor would I blame them for it.

Well, how about next time you use the FREE DEMO and find out? Or how about you write your own files? You should be glad there is even a 99% correct file. BY all rights you should be writing the datafiles yourself anyway.

Okay, first off, quell thy nerd rage. It's unbecoming.

Second off, caveat emptor. You can tell after 5 minutes of research from their website that they don't write their own datafiles. I did. I bought it anyway. I found the bug, and mentioned it on the forums there. They told me there was a bugfix in the works but it wasn't released yet. Do you know what I did after I found that out? I certainly didn't whine about it in an unrelated forum. I fixed it myself. It's not that hard and it's pretty interesting stuff to get into.

*EDIT* Also affected the PCS, Vet squads, and infantry squad weapons teams as well.

Or, if you want to use the easy button, here is mine:
http://notforhire.org/files/40k/AB40k5.zip

Disclaimer:
I'm not affiliated with GW, Lone Wolf, the actual 40k data file team, the Easter Bunny, or anyone else for that matter.
These SEEM to work for me. Great if they work for you. Sorry if they don't. If the data file guys aren't getting paid anything, I'm getting paid less. Don't complain if they don't work, break army builder, or set your computer on fire.
If Dakka has a problem with me having a direct link to the files for whatever reason, please let me know and I will happily remove it.

Good man daedalus! +1 from me!

As for my Space Wolf Files...

Nah, I'm not actually a nice guy

Wow.

Just wow.

EVERYONE calm down in here.

The points that were made are valid, and can (and WILL) be made without resorting to insults.

Right?

Indeed, some of the points made are valid......

Except the ones put forth by the poster named.....

*Looks into the wings*

"I cannot say that because it would constitue as a personal attack?"

"ok then".


As I was saying. Yes, some of the points are indeed valid.

I love you too!

Good news everyone! The aforementioned official update was released today. Fixed that issue along with a bunch of others.

daedalus wrote:Good news everyone! The aforementioned official update was released today. Fixed that issue along with a bunch of others.

No, it's far too late! I am going to sue them for all $0 that I spent!