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As I was compiling my lists, this kept popping into my head. This could just be the previous codex's allowance for only 20 total Wolf Guard models interfering in my thinking.

Some of the trains that my thoughts have taken:

If I only have 1 Wolf Guard leader in a non-Wolf Guard unit, then he takes up an Elite choice. Yet, I should have a minimum of 3 Wolf Guard, as that's the unit minimum.

If a Wolf Guard model is to be a pack leader, then he is split off from his Wolf Guard pack before deployment. So, the maximum should be 30 Wolf Guard in a standard Force Organization Chart.

I think I might have just answered my own question, but I'm going to put out where the contention I thought I was having lay/lie. (It's late, my grammar, for what it's worth, is escaping me.)

Supposing that one is not taking Logan Grimmnar and has enough points to field a full FOC, then would it be permissible to take 3 full Wolf Guard packs, 6 Grey Hunter/Blood Claw Packs with Wolf Guard Pack Leaders, 3 packs of Sky Claws with Wolf Guard Pack Leaders, and 3 packs of Long Fangs with Wolf Guard Pack Leaders; totaling the Wolf Guard total to 42?

Off hand, I'm thinking 30 is the new 20.

You buy your Wolf Guard units. These have a maximum size of 10.

That's it - splitting off is done prior to deployment, so it cannot alter how many you can initially buy. Any WG you split off come from your initial unit.

60. 10 per troop choice with Logan.

Webbe is correct. The absolute maximum is 60 with Logan. 63 if you count Wolf Guard Battle Leaders as Wolf Guard

Armandloft wrote:Supposing that one is not taking Logan Grimmnar and has enough points to field a full FOC, then would it be permissible to take 3 full Wolf Guard packs, 6 Grey Hunter/Blood Claw Packs with Wolf Guard Pack Leaders, 3 packs of Sky Claws with Wolf Guard Pack Leaders, and 3 packs of Long Fangs with Wolf Guard Pack Leaders; totaling the Wolf Guard total to 42?

No. Wolf guard are assigned at deployment. Without Logan, the most you can take is 30, then you assign them just before deployment.

tomorrow i will have money and can get a nice shiny new codex ... in the mean time what's the exact wording on Logan's rule? Could you still take them as elites as well as troops?

Have to agree with Gwar. 30 maximum for WG then you can split off. Logan allows the three units to be troops. The same as Kantor making Sternguard troops.

RB

RB wrote:Logan allows the three units to be troops. The same as Kantor making Sternguard troops.

RB

Wrong. "Wolf Guard count as Troops". In an army with Logan, Wolf Guard are no longer Elites. They are troops. You may not take them as Elites if Logan Grimnar is in the Army. You can take a Maximum of 6 Wolf Guard Packs in an Army with Logan Grimnar, 3 in an army without.

Furthermore, Pedro does not make Sternguard Troops, it makes Sternguard Scoring. Big BIG Difference.

Without trying to be rude (I am not, trust me, if I was trying to be you would know), RTFM before posting

Looks like we're all reaching close enough to the same conclusion. Here's another wrinkle/clarification:

Not using Logan again, as he changes the general rules. If you have only one elite slot for Wolf Guard, as you're planning on taking 2 packs of scouts. Then, I'm thinking you could only field a maximum of 10 Wolf Guard. Perhaps, in this case, 5 for a Wolf Guard Pack and 5 for pack leaders.

Correct.

I apologize for the error on Kantor , my bad. But where does it say more than 3 units of wolfguard can be taken. As I read it, the elite choice of wolfguard would now be troops.

RB

RB wrote:I apologize for the error on Kantor , my bad. But where does it say more than 3 units of wolfguard can be taken. As I read it, the elite choice of wolfguard would now be troops.

RB

Yes, and how many troops slots does a FoC Chart have?

Wolf Guard Count as Troops, thus they are troops in every single way. They take up Troop FoC slots, so you can take 6 Wolf Guard Packs and 3 other Elite Units.

Sorry a bit off subject,being out of touch for a while,if wolfguard are troops and they become squad leaders,would'nt they make their non scoring units scoring

RB wrote:I apologize for the error on Kantor , my bad. But where does it say more than 3 units of wolfguard can be taken. As I read it, the elite choice of wolfguard would now be troops.

RB

The unit entry lets you can take any number of Wolf Guard pack units. It's the Force Organisation Chart that is the limit.
Wolf Guard pack units are normally an elite choice and you have three elite slots so normally you can take a maximum of three Wolf Guard pack units.
Logan Grimnar, the Great Wolf's The Great Wolf ability (yes, read it carefully, it's written correctly) make all Wolf Guard pack units troop choices instead of elite choices and as you have six troop slots you can take six Wolf Guard pack units.

Kantor's ability is different as it makes Sternguard scoring while they remain an elite choice.

buddy999 wrote:Sorry a bit off subject,being out of touch for a while,if wolfguard are troops and they become squad leaders,would'nt they make their non scoring units scoring

No, it doesn't.

OK - good posts. On the smaller side

I want to have 2 GH squads - and I want to give them a Wolf Guard leader each. BUT I don't have enough points to spend on any other Wolf Guard.
Am I allowed to do this? Or do I have to have 3 wolf guard first (as minimum squad size) .... then split them off into the GH units.
If this is the case, I presume I would need 3 GH squads, because I can't be left with 1 Wolf Guard without a unit to put him in .. and he can't be on his own.

OR ...

Am I fine having as few Wolf Guard as I like ... as long as I don't field a unit of under 3 wolf guards?

Seems a little ambiguous to me ...... but then I'm probably being daft

You have to take 3 WG minimum. You buy the squad, then assign "before the battle". So, you could have a Unit of 1 WG. Who's not an IC, so he can't join a unit.

dietrich wrote:You have to take 3 WG minimum. You buy the squad, then assign "before the battle". So, you could have a Unit of 1 WG. Who's not an IC, so he can't join a unit.

or be joined by IC

Yeah. You could have 1 WG and an attached IC (maybe with a couple wolves) in a drop pod. It's doesn't sound OMG, but it has potential, I would think.

Tri - he could be joined by an IC, surely? He isnt a unit that is always a single model...

nosferatu1001 wrote:Tri - he could be joined by an IC, surely? He isnt a unit that is always a single model...

Indeed. He can be joined by an IC. IC's can Join units of 1 model, they cannot join units THAT ARE ALWAYS one model (Like Carnifex, Rhinos or Fire Prisms)

Gwar! wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Tri - he could be joined by an IC, surely? He isnt a unit that is always a single model...

Indeed. He can be joined by an IC. IC's can Join units of 1 model, they cannot join units THAT ARE ALWAYS one model (Like Carnifex, Rhinos or Fire Prisms)

? Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing gwar? first saying he can and then quoting the rule preventing him. "Bear in mind that there are units of one model that only ever fight as units of one model, but are not IC"

He is a unit of 1 model. A wraith Lord is a unit of 1 model. Explain why they are different? Its like having a Hive Tyrant and having a Broodlord join him.

Because nothing is forcing you to actually split off the other two WG from the unit?

If you dont split them off, the unit is still 3 strong, ergo the model if you DO split them off is never a unit which always comprises a single model.

Oh - and you can join a BL to a hive tyrant,a s the HT can buy Tyrant Guard and is therefore NOT a unit consisting ALSWAYS of a single model

No, the IC's are prevented from joining units THAT ARE ALWAYS, FOREVER AND EVER AND CAN NEVER BE ANYTHING ELSE BUT one model. Things like 1 strong Wolf Guard packs, 1 strong Crisis Suit units etc etc, are not ALWAYS, FOREVER AND EVER AND CAN NEVER BE ANYTHING ELSE BUT one model, they have an option of being 1 model, but do not have to be.

Also Tyrant Guard

Also, Damn Ninjas

Sorry a bit off subject,being out of touch for a while,if wolfguard are troops and they become squad leaders,would'nt they make their non scoring units scoring

No, a model which joins another unit becomes part of that unit but does not affect the unit's force-org type. See BGB p. 3, 47-49. Just like being joined by an HQ-choice IC doesn't make a scoring unit nonscoring, being joined by a troops-choice wolfguard leader (which isn't an IC but nevertheless becomes part of the unit) doesn't make a nonscoring unit scoring.

-GK