Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Imperial Guard Army List 1500pt



This list looks pretty neat to me, but feedback is definitely welcome!

+is it fairly badass with straken, marbo, penal legionnaires and power fists.


Basic strategy really is to let the oponent underestimate this list. pound them with double russ (yes lumbering bohemoth) and master of ordanance- plus some heavy weapon action.

Straken command will dish some serious meq damage (possible tank busting) and hopefully some combat longevity with bodyguards and carapace armour. Command (and) conquer will sit in area cover (3+ save with camelione) and yell some orders (+vets on lascannon, master of ordnance). The combined 20 man infantry squad has some anti tank with lascannons but will really serve just to hold that base objective- and act as bait lol.

As opponent psychs themselves up for combat, mess up their plans with marbo demo charge, beat them to the combat with straken chimera (rough riders if necessary, or leave them on gunline defense), platoon command and assault vet squad (shotguns+ flamers/grenades). Then get nasty with outflanking legionnaires. [I drew a picture of this with arrows- uber tactical- looks fun].

This strategy really hinges on straken's ability to conferr furious charge within 12"- effectively making guard attacks equivalent to space marines! Combine that with legionnaires knife fighters (rending combat weapons), vet assault weapons (+demo charge), some fists, platoon standard (marbo and riders if necessary) and of course that mega (fearless, furious charging, strength 6 save ignoring) toughnut straken- and you'l mess up some stuff. Thats the plan anyways =D



HQ


213: Straken Command Squad: Retribution

Colonel Iron Hand Straken- 95
4x veterans [28] (4x melta guns (40), +2x bodyguard [30])
+Carapace armour [20]

55: Chimera


155: Force Command Squad: Conquer

Company Commander [22] +power fist (15)
4x veterans [28] (lascannon team (20), vox caster (5), standard bearer (15))
1x Master of Ordnance (30)
+Cameleoline Armour (20)


77: Platoon Command Squad: Challenge

Junior Officer [10] + power fist (15) + bolt pistol (2)
4x guardsman [20] + 2x flamers/grenade launchers (10), platoon standard bearer (15)


Subtotal: 495


Troops


80: Infantry Squad: Resist

Sergeant, 9 Guardsmen (50)
Lascannon (20), vox caster (5), grenade launcher (5)

75: Infantry Squad (combined)

Sergeant, 9 Guardsmen (50)
Lascannon (20), grenade launcher (5)


80: Legionnaires

80: Legionnaires



115: Veteran Squad: Mayhem

Sergeant + power fist (15), 9 veterans (2x grenade launchers/flamers [10]), (7x shotguns +vox caster [5])), demolitions doctrine (meltabombs + demo charge [30])



Subtotal: 425

Heavy Support


185: Leman Russ Battle Tank (150)
+ 15 lascannon, +20 heavy bolters

185: Leman Russ Battle Tank (150)
+ 15 lascannon, +20 heavy bolters


90: Heavy Weapons Squad, Missile Launchers


Subtotal: 460


Elites:

65: Guardsman Marbo


Fast Attack

55: Rough Riders


Subtotal: 120


Total: 1500

Movement and your lack of armour stand out the most to me.

i think 2 russ's in a 1500pt is enough armour- i have a bassalisk lying around but it doesnt really fit the game plan. was considering another chimera for vets- any ideas what to drop?
That said it is a guard army so movement isn't the first priority. Aim was to use marbo (deep strike) and rough riders (speedy) to plug those gaps. not to mention the legionnaires are scouts so they can outflank (even next to enemy gunlines if need be)

Your command squad is 235 points. Straken's point cost is on top of the cost of a CCS. You can't deduct the cost of a normal commander. Also, PCS and HWS are troops, not HQ and HS.

A power fist on a lascannon CCS which is at the back of the table which won't see combat? 5 guys won't last long, I wouldn't bother with the power fist.

You don't need a power fist in the PCS either.

Long range lascannon and short range grenade launcher in the troops, you will have range and movibility problems here.

Legionnaries?

Veteran squad on foot with demo? All flamers would be better for mass templates, works a treat.

Drop the heavy bolters on the russ, drop the heavy weap team and the rough riders and get another tank . Teh rough riders won't do a lot and the heavy weap team can be insta-killed by S6 fire, 3 shots and they're gone.

Really you need more armour, you've got 3 tanks if I'm counting right. One is just a transport. You haven't got enough on foot to be much of a threat either.

You have heavy weapons in the same squads you bought assault weapons. Your vet squad is a huge point sink, (and costs more than you have listed). Which brings up the fact that your addition is poor, and you have several squads with numbers that are incorrect. I would recommend dropping a lot of the crap in most of your squads. If you want your infantry to be decent, drop the heavy weapons teams in your infantry squads, and buy more heavy weapons teams. Fill your squads with special weapons

Don't use combine squads. Especially with a melee army... once you get into melee, the enemy has cover from any shooting phase which will most likely be your strength. By putting 20 in a squad you basically sacrifice 2 squads whenever you get stuck in. If you keep the squads separate, you can choose if you want the second 10 man to jump into a melee the first is most likely losing. Or you can wait for the squad to die, then flamer what's left of your enemy, and assault... giving you bonuses. Also it's nice when the enemy blows away a few of your squads (they will) you are holding points with, and you need a few guys to go sit on a capture point, and they aren't stuck in a squad of 20+ infantry, what a waste.

Drop the Riders.
Drop Marbro.
Drop the Vets and bring more Legionaries.

Use the infantry in your platoon to hold points. Sit heavy weapons teams on the points on your board side, and assault with the rest of the infantry. Use the Legionaries to actually do some damage in melee.

Bring more armor. I try to build my armies 50% infantry, 50% armor. Bring cheap infantry and tanks. Guard is far from invulnerable, you are going to take casualties, so spread out the points better; avoid point sinks.

I could keep going, but my class is over.

If you want to make your guard good at close combat using straken, maybe you need large combined squads (contrary to Lt Lathrop's idea) with sergeants with power weapons, and a commissar with a power weapon. It's easy to make all 30-40 men benefit from straken's abilities, and they will stick around for a while whilst the PW attacks whittle down the enemy. Fists in small squads are the opposite of good, because any reasonable opponent will kill your 5 guardsmen before you can strike, and you won't have enough attacks to do much harm anyway.

Try building the list as follows: Take 3 naked leman russes, since the weapons upgrades are pricy and not that effective. Then take straken, he probably needs carapace+bodyguards, OR a chimera, not both. Then take either 60 penal legionnaires, or big platoons as listed above, the PCSs should have 4 special weapons and no other upgrades.

Missile launcher HWSs, rough riders and marbo are all pretty marginal choices, I would hold off on those until you're sure you have plenty of bodies on the table.

Hey yeh these are all great points- its pretty well the list i built with the models i have (eg excessive power fists in lascannon command etc) would love some more troops, tanks, carapace (useless stormtrooper models) etc.

I don't know why everyone is so against russ sponsons. come onn. lumbering bohemoth! (again- these are already on my models).

Chimera for straken was more for mobility rather than armour- plus the idea of jumping out (after sitting one turn) then wasting a tac squad/termy with meltas and straken.

Ps what do people use platoon command squad for? they seem pretty useless. The plan was to drop them into existing combat rather than on their own.

Demo charge on vets was, again, for marine busting. flamers never seem that effective on power armour
Grenade launcher is 5pts, 24" yeh? but hey i guess that long range/short range issues are for target selection? I just remember heavy weapons teams dying easy (as a priority target).

I have a custom model made from shaffer's warrior woman for marbo- and im willing to sacrifice a little for fluff. R.Riders and missile launchers are models i have, but will def get more troops soon. Happy to drop missile launchers. (ps if theyr a troops choice they can take/hold objectives?)

The combined squad was just to ward off that 25% shooting leadership test a bit longer (and would only have to buy one vox caster) and it'l def be in 4+ area cover. Rough riders will be out of sight ready to counter charge whatever takes that big squad.

Plus there's the 1st rank 2nd rank business, rapid fire 60 shots combine squad (instead of 50 shots if the squads are seperate) [or should i have pcs at the back too?]

Power weapons... mm. 5's to kill vs fists, 2's to kill. plus guard have low initiative so would strike last anyways (but yeh- furious charge, I4)

I might run a game with this list, so i see first hand its limits, then grab some new models. thanks for input guys

How cna demo vets be marine busting? S3 shotguns? 5+ save?

optimus-prime-time wrote:I don't know why everyone is so against russ sponsons. come onn. lumbering bohemoth! (again- these are already on my models).

Sponsoons are bad not because we can't shoot them because we moved 6", they are bad because most of the sponsoons fire at 3' instead of 6' like the Battle Cannon, or 4' like the Lascannon. They are expensive for something you won't use. And on top of that, the heavy bolter sponsoon don't have a high enough strength to be useful against anything that you are probably shooting at with the BC or the LC.

optimus-prime-time wrote:Chimera for straken was more for mobility rather than armour- plus the idea of jumping out (after sitting one turn) then wasting a tac squad/termy with meltas and straken.

It is a good stratagy, I thought it was a pretty good squad; except if you lose Straken you lose all your army wide bonuses.

optimus-prime-time wrote:Ps what do people use platoon command squad for? they seem pretty useless. The plan was to drop them into existing combat rather than on their own.

I generally use the PCS in a chimera, with special weapons sometimes (chimera has 5 fire points so you should be able to fire everything) and use the PCS to sit on points on the far side of the map, in their 10 armor shell, while you do other things with your more expensive/useful squads. They have some pretty good orders though too.

optimus-prime-time wrote:Demo charge on vets was, again, for marine busting. flamers never seem that effective on power armour
Grenade launcher is 5pts, 24" yeh? but hey i guess that long range/short range issues are for target selection? I just remember heavy weapons teams dying easy (as a priority target).

Demo on marines sounds good to me. Heavy weapons teams are a priority target... that's why you stick them in cover somewhere on a point on your home side. I like top floors of ruins. 4+ cover becomes 3+ if you go to ground, or 2+ if you give the order the previous turn. At that point, I say let the guy waste shots against your HWS, each model has 2 wounds too, so you can spead around the love a little before you take a loss in firepower.

optimus-prime-time wrote:I have a custom model made from shaffer's warrior woman for marbo- and im willing to sacrifice a little for fluff. R.Riders and missile launchers are models i have, but will def get more troops soon. Happy to drop missile launchers. (ps if theyr a troops choice they can take/hold objectives?)

Heavy weapons squads taken in your platoon, are troops, and infantry. They do not specifically say they cannot cap and hold points. Thus, they can cap and hold points. With 4' range, they are some of my fav units to place on a point close to your board side, behind your main force's advance. Just sit tight, and shoot the stuff in your infantry's way.

optimus-prime-time wrote:The combined squad was just to ward off that 25% shooting leadership test a bit longer (and would only have to buy one vox caster) and it'l def be in 4+ area cover. Rough riders will be out of sight ready to counter charge whatever takes that big squad.

There are better things than Rough Riders for the points. If you are worried about leadership test consider a regimental standard.

optimus-prime-time wrote:Plus there's the 1st rank 2nd rank business, rapid fire 60 shots combine squad (instead of 50 shots if the squads are seperate) [or should i have pcs at the back too?]

Depending on the size of your army, it will be hard to have enough orders for everyone. CCS have orders like "Get back in the Fight!" Which are more powerful than "First rank, Second rank...". Also, even a squad of 50 guard is only 150 lasgun shots with the order. BS3 is 75 hits. S3 v T3 is 38 wounds. With no armor piercing they always give a save. Say you were going up against more guard, some of the weakest dudes in the universe. A 5+ armor save would reduce your wounds to 25. You went from 150 to 25. At this point you should realize that wasting orders on extra lasgun shots shouldn't be a priority. (Against Space Marines with T4 and Sv3+ you go from 150 to 8.) You will always have better luck spending 5pts on grenade launchers at S6 AP4 or flamers at S4 AP5 (which doesn't allow cover saves, and auto hits, so you can bypass your crappy BS3 rolls).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mercer wrote:How cna demo vets be marine busting? S3 shotguns? 5+ save?

Demo Vets get a Demo Charge, which is a one shot S8 AP2 pieplate.

Lt Lathrop wrote:

optimus-prime-time wrote:I don't know why everyone is so against russ sponsons. come onn. lumbering bohemoth! (again- these are already on my models).

Sponsoons are bad not because we can't shoot them because we moved 6", they are bad because most of the sponsoons fire at 3' instead of 6' like the Battle Cannon, or 4' like the Lascannon. They are expensive for something you won't use. And on top of that, the heavy bolter sponsoon don't have a high enough strength to be useful against anything that you are probably shooting at with the BC or the LC.

optimus-prime-time wrote:Chimera for straken was more for mobility rather than armour- plus the idea of jumping out (after sitting one turn) then wasting a tac squad/termy with meltas and straken.

It is a good stratagy, I thought it was a pretty good squad; except if you lose Straken you lose all your army wide bonuses.

optimus-prime-time wrote:Ps what do people use platoon command squad for? they seem pretty useless. The plan was to drop them into existing combat rather than on their own.

I generally use the PCS in a chimera, with special weapons sometimes (chimera has 5 fire points so you should be able to fire everything) and use the PCS to sit on points on the far side of the map, in their 10 armor shell, while you do other things with your more expensive/useful squads. They have some pretty good orders though too.

optimus-prime-time wrote:Demo charge on vets was, again, for marine busting. flamers never seem that effective on power armour
Grenade launcher is 5pts, 24" yeh? but hey i guess that long range/short range issues are for target selection? I just remember heavy weapons teams dying easy (as a priority target).

Demo on marines sounds good to me. Heavy weapons teams are a priority target... that's why you stick them in cover somewhere on a point on your home side. I like top floors of ruins. 4+ cover becomes 3+ if you go to ground, or 2+ if you give the order the previous turn. At that point, I say let the guy waste shots against your HWS, each model has 2 wounds too, so you can spead around the love a little before you take a loss in firepower.

optimus-prime-time wrote:I have a custom model made from shaffer's warrior woman for marbo- and im willing to sacrifice a little for fluff. R.Riders and missile launchers are models i have, but will def get more troops soon. Happy to drop missile launchers. (ps if theyr a troops choice they can take/hold objectives?)

Heavy weapons squads taken in your platoon, are troops, and infantry. They do not specifically say they cannot cap and hold points. Thus, they can cap and hold points. With 4' range, they are some of my fav units to place on a point close to your board side, behind your main force's advance. Just sit tight, and shoot the stuff in your infantry's way.

optimus-prime-time wrote:The combined squad was just to ward off that 25% shooting leadership test a bit longer (and would only have to buy one vox caster) and it'l def be in 4+ area cover. Rough riders will be out of sight ready to counter charge whatever takes that big squad.

There are better things than Rough Riders for the points. If you are worried about leadership test consider a regimental standard.

optimus-prime-time wrote:Plus there's the 1st rank 2nd rank business, rapid fire 60 shots combine squad (instead of 50 shots if the squads are seperate) [or should i have pcs at the back too?]

Depending on the size of your army, it will be hard to have enough orders for everyone. CCS have orders like "Get back in the Fight!" Which are more powerful than "First rank, Second rank...". Also, even a squad of 50 guard is only 150 lasgun shots with the order. BS3 is 75 hits. S3 v T3 is 38 wounds. With no armor piercing they always give a save. Say you were going up against more guard, some of the weakest dudes in the universe. A 5+ armor save would reduce your wounds to 25. You went from 150 to 25. At this point you should realize that wasting orders on extra lasgun shots shouldn't be a priority. (Against Space Marines with T4 and Sv3+ you go from 150 to 8.) You will always have better luck spending 5pts on grenade launchers at S6 AP4 or flamers at S4 AP5 (which doesn't allow cover saves, and auto hits, so you can bypass your crappy BS3 rolls).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mercer wrote:How cna demo vets be marine busting? S3 shotguns? 5+ save?

Demo Vets get a Demo Charge, which is a one shot S8 AP2 pieplate.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
ok awesome! i think.. so you can fire ur weapons (meltas) in a chimera from the fire points instead of using the useless mounted lasguns?? flamers? demo charge????

Lt is the 3' business on the russ bolters the arc of range or something? not sure what you mean

Shotguns are on the vets so they assault same turn (demo charge is an assault weapon too!)

yeh got the standard bearer in the ccs. hopefully that squad will stick around. (get back in the fight). still not sure if i should split it. yes?

The 3' bussiness is only part of the problem. The main gun of the Russ is the Battle Cannon, and the major reason you take the tank (that and 14 armor). The Battle Cannon fires at 6 feet. Unless you drive your tank closer than its max range (which potentially puts it into more danger) you won't be able to fire any other weapons. If you drive it to 4' you would be able to hit with the Battle Cannon, and a Lascannon if you buy it. Heavy Bolters only fire at 3' so if you have one in the hull, you have to drive to 3'... half the range of your main gun. The spindle mounted turrets are set back a few inches too, so even at 3' you still might not be able to reach with them. For 20 points, a pair of HBs aren't worth it. HBs also suffer from S5. Which compared to the BC's S8 or the LC's S9 means that the targets you choose to fire at with the BC will probably not be affected by the HBs. The answer to that is to use Plasma Cannons, but PCs still fire at 3' but at least they have S7 AP2 to keep up with the BC and LC. However they cost 40pts, which is almost another whole squad of infantry.

You can fire weapons from a transport so long as you follow all the rules that apply. If you have a heavy weapon, you can't fire it if the infantry moves. If the transport moves, the infantry has moved. But for the melta, it doesn't matter if you move, so you can fire from the transport. However if the transport moves it can't fire all of its weapons, and meltas are too powerful to count as defensive weapons. So just keep that all in mind.

I personally usually try to keep my squads in 10man form. I have a shooty army, so when CC armies lock me into assault, then I can't shoot at them. So i want the squad to die, quickly and cheaply so I can start shooting again. But if you want to make a CC army, then you actually wanna win the fight... not take as few casualties as possible. So don't ask me. Lol.

From Lt Lathrop:
The 3' bussiness is only part of the problem. The main gun of the Russ is the Battle Cannon, and the major reason you take the tank (that and 14 armor). The Battle Cannon fires at 6 feet. Unless you drive your tank closer than its max range (which potentially puts it into more danger) you won't be able to fire any other weapons. If you drive it to 4' you would be able to hit with the Battle Cannon, and a Lascannon if you buy it. Heavy Bolters only fire at 3' so if you have one in the hull, you have to drive to 3'... half the range of your main gun. The spindle mounted turrets are set back a few inches too, so even at 3' you still might not be able to reach with them. For 20 points, a pair of HBs aren't worth it. HBs also suffer from S5. Which compared to the BC's S8 or the LC's S9 means that the targets you choose to fire at with the BC will probably not be affected by the HBs. The answer to that is to use Plasma Cannons, but PCs still fire at 3' but at least they have S7 AP2 to keep up with the BC and LC. However they cost 40pts, which is almost another whole squad of infantry.

I don't remember being six feet away from an emeny for to long in any games.
The HB are totally worth it, any player worth half their salt will take the BC as the firts choice when a weapon destroyed comes up. Also the HB are good anti-troop weapons, which i think every army brings to the table. It is good to have a back up plan with the tank rather just going around with i have a BC and it will not get destryoed throughout the course of the game. The other army has a say. Also the BC does have a chance to scatter. With the new cover rules it is good to have these back-ups.
The more dice you make an oppoent roll the better you do. Even opponets with Termies will fall to the HB. And if someone says "no" than they are lying.

But play what you like, have fun.