Switch Theme:

2500pts Empire C&S appreciated  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Nasty Nob






Joplin, Missouri

Yet another list in the works. I'm considering bringing this list to a tourney in Janurary so I was looking for some input. Thanks in advance for your help.

2500pts Empire

Lord: Templar Grand Master – White Cloak, Laurels of Victory (235)

Captain: – BSB, AoMI, Icon of Magnus (125)

Captain: – GW, Full Plate, Shield – Shroud of Magnus (114)

Wizard: – 2x Dispel Scrolls (115)

20 Swordsmen – Full Command (145)
•Det: 10 Free Company (50)

20 Swordsmen – Full Command (145)
•Det: 10 Free Company (50)

10 Handgunners (80)
•Det: 5 Handgunners (40)

10 Hunstmen w/ Marksmen (105)

5 Knights – Full Command – Warbanner (180)

6 Knights – Full Command – Standard of Arcane Warding (208)
•Led by Templar Grand Master

20 Greatswords – Full Command
•Det: 10 Free Company
•Led by both Captains

5 Pistoliers – Musician, Outrider with Repeater pistol (114)

5 Pistoliers – Musician, Outrider with Repeater pistol (114)

Great Cannon (100)

Steam Tank (300)

Total Points: 2500

"Just pull it out and play with it" -Big Nasty B @ Life After the Cover Save
40k: Orks
Fantasy: Empire, Beastmen, Warriors of Chaos, and Ogre Kingdoms  
   
Made in us
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Barpharanges






Limbo

Are the Greatswords worth taking? Considering their stats, they always seemed "subpar" to me.

DS:80S+GM--B++I+Pwhfb/re#+D++A++/fWD-R+++T(O)DM+++

Madness and genius are separated by degrees of success.

Remember to follow the Swap Shop Rules and Guidelines! 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut



Painesville, Ohio, USA

“Baron, Master Krueger is ready with his report,” announced the page. The Templar Grandmaster waved for the page to let Krueger into his study.

The seasoned knight grimaced and shook his head at the sight of the old Engineer. He at least looked the part of an engineer. Wire-rimmed glasses… only a ring of white hair left… coat pockets and satchels full of scrolls, parchment, and tools only inventors use… cuffs and sleeves stained with ink. The Baron smirked a bit as he saw the Estalian-steel saber matched with the brace of pistols… apparently Krueger was left-handed, or at least fenced that way. The knight took a deep breath, and focused his gaze upon Krueger’s face. The Marienburger could not be trusted, no matter what he said his allegiances were. Marienburgers were all the same. Still… the old man seemed to have a vast amount of real military knowledge, despite being one of those eccentric combat engineers.

Krueger removed his felt cap and partially bowed to the knight. “Sir,” began the engineer, “I’m ready to give my review of your mustered soldiery.”

Waving his approval, the Templar leaned back into his chair to see what the old man had to say. “Sir, I’d like to start with your lieutenants and a couple of general comments about your militia.

“With an army of your size, I have to wonder where your magical defenses are. I did see an apprentice stocked full of Nul Scrolls, and a couple of items designed to ward away evil magics… but, your overall defenses seem thin. You’ve discussed with me the size of the armies you expect to face, and many armies of that size often carry considerable magical offense. Perhaps you could leave one of your Captains at home, to continue to drill your town militia. In his place, I would suggest Abbott Feldgraz, who I saw at the chapel. I’ve seen him do morning practice with that zweihander mace of his, and he is skilled indeed. I’m certain he would be honored to wear that blessed cloth your one captain currently wears. Not only that, but his fiery speeches, and supernatural protections would serve your army well. You could even mount him on horseback, so, if the need arrises, he could jump from the company of zweihanders to your swordsmen or knights.” The old man trailed off, absently scratching his head as he mumbled, “Though… if he was on horseback, I would think he should just use a hammer-and-shield… zweihanders are slow to use on horseback. Not only that, but having a second person able to cast spells might dilute your opponents own magical defenses.”

Krueger paused for a moment, and checked his pocket watch. He studied it, as if distracted. After a few seconds ticked away, he closed the watch, stuffing it back into one of his impossibly deep coat pockets, and interjected, “Or, if you don’t care to donate a few silvers to the church to obtain the Abbott’s help, perhaps you could hire a second prodigal sorcerer-apprentice? Equipping him with a pair of Nul Scrolls would give you a very formidable magical defense, and possibly the ability to even cast an offensive spell of your own.”

“As a passing thought on your Captains, as they currently are, Sir, perhaps you could mount them on horseback? Doing so would give them a bit of mobility, if needed, to move from company to company… you could even afford the warhorses by not donating for the Alchemical-Iron armor your one captain wears.

“I only have a couple of comments on your companies of soldiers, Sir. I noticed that each of your swordsman units had a small squad of mercenary freebooters assisting them. I would suggest perhaps sending a mercenary or two home? A small, commando-sized squad of nine, deployed in a three-by-three square, is highly maneuverable, and still able to do everything that the squad of ten can do… and it’ll save you a few silvers to use elsewhere.”

Digging into his pocket, the engineer pulled out what must have been a book’s worth of lose paper, and began to shuffle through the pages. Even the Templar Grandmaster blinked and nodded in approval… Krueger must at least be of such means to afford a lot of paper. “Ah, here we are. Sir, I noticed you also are bringing a squad of gunmen. I was wondering why not bring a musican with them? While a Marksman is often a bit expensive for the gunmen, a musician is very valuable. It’ll give the gunners a sound to rally around, should they get disrupted or have to fall back… you could even send the small detachment of gunners home, in order to get a flute or bagpipes for a musician. Should you need an instrument, I have a locker full of various horns, drums, and bagpipes, many from renown makers like Stratavarii and Gibbs.”

Stuffing the notes carelessly back into his pocket the engineer continued, “Sir, something to consider with your unit of Rangers. While they are very able to deploy themselves to give you forward set of eyes, they are more fragile than glass. While I do approve of gunpowder as the true equalizer of the battlefield, the Ranger’s abilities will give you the potential to threaten enemy advances, harrass the flanks of the enemies army, and potentially deny a commanding spot from your opposing general. However, often after the battle, only one or two Rangers remain… if that many. You might be able to save a silver or two by leaving the Marksman at home, and just bringing the squad of Rangers.”

“Sir, while I approve of your cannon and steel-armored-carriage, as well as your squads of Pistoliers, I do want to make a suggestion about your own bodyguard of knights. Since you, yourself, are taking to the battlefield, why not bring your own Inner Circle detachment? Such veteran knights, would be a huge hammer for you to plow through your opponents with. Even just offering to pay for five of the Inner Circle templars would be an impressive sight… not to mention that knights are also able to be inspired by the oratories of Sigmarite priests as well. Though… I did notice that you’re at a premium for space… perhaps the Inner Circle knights could replace your company of zweihanders? It is a bit of a tricky choice, but one worthy of considering.

“Thinking of your zweihanders, I did notice they are a good unit, and being lead by your Bannerman will make them a stalwart bastion in your line… yet… you do already have two companies of swordsmen. It… might be worth it to leave your zweihanders back to defend your keep and town. With the silver you save from doing so, you could donate for another squad of knights, or even upsize your swordsmen companies to twenty-four strong. I would say that, having one of your Captains on foot with your common swordsmen might serve you better. And the silver you save, could be used to donate for some of the other suggestions I have brought up. If you do wish to keep your Captains and your Zweihanders… I would like to point out one thing. You have two items doing the same duty… meaning the weaker of the two will be effectively doing nothing. Your banner enchanted to protect against hostile magic, and your grave-shroud that supposedly has an image of Magnus on it both do the same thing. You might be better served having your Captain in a different unit, or giving him a different item… maybe just a holy relic from the town chapel. If you do wish to keep the shroud, I would suggest you move that Captain to one of your swordsman companies. Doing so will allow you to get the full power of such divine protection, as well as spread out your leadership as well, and make your common troops a bit more stalwart of heart.”

Bowing again, Krueger concluded, “Sir, if you have no questions, I must be off. My services have been requested by several of the Border Lords, including the impressive von Drakken himself.”




Automatically Appended Next Post:
To Jin:

The Greatswords are pretty good. With Initiative 3 they can actually challenge great-weapon units of other armies like orcs and dwarves, who are slower. If nothing else, they always have "Stubborn". A lot of the equvalents in other armies only get "Stubborn" if the general is with them.

Though... you do almost get 2 swordsmen for 1 Greatsword.

Their big penalty, to me, is they fight for spots against such things as Inner Circle Knights, Pistoliers, Cannons and Mortars. While I tend to not get Inner Circle knights, I tend to get two units of Pistoliers and Two cannons... leaving no room for the Greatswords. Now, if Greatswords had something like "Killing Blow" in addition to "Stubborn", or maybe the ability to take a magic banner on their own... then they'd probably see more table-time.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/10/10 16:50:18


 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob






Joplin, Missouri

Ok toyed around with the list after considering LtCraggs and Jin's suggestions:
2500pts Empire

Lord: Templar Grand Master – White Cloak, Laurels of Victory (235)

Captain: – BSB, Sword of Might, Dawn Armor, Barded Warhorse (139)

Priest: - Sword of Power, Shield, Heavy Armor, Barded Warhorse (150)

Wizard: – 2x Dispel Scrolls (115)

20 Swordsmen – Full Command (145)
•Det: 9 Free Company (45)
•Led by BSB Captain

20 Swordsmen – Full Command (145)
•Det: 9 Free Company (45)

20 Swordsmen – Full Command (145)
•Det: 9 Free Company (45)

10 Handgunners w/ Musician (85)
•Det: 5 Handgunners (40)

5 Knights – Full Command – Warbanner (180)

5 Knights – Full Command (155)
•Led by Priest

5 Inner Circle Knights – Full Command – Standard of Arcane Warding (200)
•Led by Templar Grand Master

5 Pistoliers – Musician, Outrider with Repeater pistol (114)

5 Pistoliers – Musician, Outrider with Repeater pistol (114)

Great Cannon (100)

Steam Tank (300)

Total Points: 2497

A few points that I picked up on.
*I've never considered running the FC in packs of 9. Having the reduced frontage reduces the number of attacks, but it is also keeping that many of their own from being targeted. I look forward to trying this out.
*I generally never leave home without the Greatswords, but then again for the same points I am getting another block of Swordsmen and points towards my knights.
*I've never run three units of Knights. I look forward to seeing the thunderous charge.
*Eliminated the Huntsmen. Last list they served as a points sink and little more.
*Mounted the BSB (hurr, hurr) and swapped Captain #2 for a Priest. Not sure about their combos of Wargear. If it is lacking (or in need of improvement) please comment.
*I'm more satisfied with the list. I feel that the list is more mobile then lists I have previously created. I like the notion of having 3 solid blocks of Swordsmen that can easily be supported by the knights and Stank. My only concern is deployment. Before I would deploy in a straight line and hope for the best.

Edit: Thanks LtCraggs for the "fluffy" response, I enjoyed that.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/10/12 15:12:05


"Just pull it out and play with it" -Big Nasty B @ Life After the Cover Save
40k: Orks
Fantasy: Empire, Beastmen, Warriors of Chaos, and Ogre Kingdoms  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut



Painesville, Ohio, USA

The updated list looks pretty good. You'll have to keep an eye on your BSB though. He has a solid armor save in the Dawn Armor and Barded Warhorse (2+ twice), but no built-in Ward save will make him vulnerable to special attacks that avoid armor.

I would make one, quick suggestion. Your detachment of 5 handgunners isn't going to amount to much in the game. I'd drop them, in favor of getting 1 additional knight in your non-inner-circle knight lead by the Priest, and a Pistolier. That'll give your Priest one more model to be affected by Hate, and give one of your Pistolier units a bit more bite and survivability.

   
Made in us
Nasty Nob






Joplin, Missouri

Ok I swapped them out and I feel good about those changes.

I will need to pick up some more Swordsmen (to replace the Greatswords), but the other minis are very doable. Thanks for the help.


"Just pull it out and play with it" -Big Nasty B @ Life After the Cover Save
40k: Orks
Fantasy: Empire, Beastmen, Warriors of Chaos, and Ogre Kingdoms  
   
 
Forum Index » The Old World & Legacy Warhammer Fantasy Discussion
Go to: