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The beginning of this project was posted here,http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/259528.page. To just repeat myself, I am in the beginning stages of conceptualizing and eventually building a set of miniatures (with unique rules) to be added to my Chaos Daemons Army. i have just been informed of late that i posted my ideas in the wrong section. So I decided to move any fluff discussion here. Just read what is in the link if you want and tell me what you think, and whether you feel the changes in concept made are coherent to the universe or not. The more information i have on what people think, the faster i can progress, only when 10/11 like what they read will i consider this stage finished. Please note the current concept is my second to last post on that thread, I recommend you read what you can there first. What I will do is rewrite a new concept in Codex style every 2 negative comments, once 10/11 people roughly approve it, i will move to pictures, all i need is 10 of you to say that it is not just a good idea, but that you would use daemons derived from this concept. Even if you are not Daemon players I need to know in that case, would you want to play against daemons derived from this concept or rather, not want to fight such daemons (difference between challenging and scary)? both will be counted as positive. Read there first Once afew opinions come in, I will write a more formal, complete concept for the God here, followed by Daemon fluff. Once the Chaos God (now named Za'Neb) is appropriately approved, the daemon concepts will follow, however i will not be looking for approval on those in the same way, that is for the experimental rules board. So help me write some fluff, be brutal, but expect some retaliation and defense on my part, however my focus is not to please myself, it is to please others, I cannot field a set of daemons that is not appealing to others in the most complete sense, fluff and rules. so read what is already there and tell me what you think, i still need more opinions.
Thankyou all for your time.

Finally a full sketch.

In the millenia following the Horus Heresy the human race has become immense in it's scope and size. The Emperor, now a warp presence, has become distant from his followers. He is a god Emperor, a psychic presence, but not feeling, a protector but not a nurturer. Due to the lack of true caring, the violent and unfeeling actions o his fleets, and unbeknownst to him, a new warp power began to emerge, fueled by humanity. The Eldar feared that humanity would bring about a similar cataclysm as what had destroyed them. The birth of Slaanesh was one of the most devestating events in Galactic history. The insane actions of humanity, at once cruel and exacting among it's forces while the masses upon masses of humans worshipped a false God, has been the food for the Chaos God Za'Neb. It was and is in the warp, a creature of burden and total insanity. Because humanity was mostly a mindless drove of lesser beings with no real significance, nothing except for a rabble of stray thoughts, light emotions, and irrational choices, these minor feelings have found a body in Za'Neb. Za'Neb was not as Slaanesh or the other Chaos Gods before it, it had no birth scream, no cataclysmic arrival, it was what Tzeentch has come to call "somewhat unexpected". This is where the story of how this minor thing, Za'Neb, became the fifth Chaos God.

Little more than a gigantic warp formed chaos spawn, mindless, animalistic and totally insane, this was Za'Neb. Tzeentch however, seeing the future through his advisor The Fateweaver, thought from his visions that this thing would never amount to much. It was quiet (for a gibbering warp creature) and was always kept at a distance. Za'Neb at this time was not Za'Neb, but merely "that thing". Tzeentch however, in his absolute need to control and ever weave greater intricacies in planning, decided to take this thing in. Being the Great Lord of Change, saw this creature as a play thing, another tool for his ends. It's lack of intellect, and feasting on mediocrity, made it a perfect meat shield for his army. "That Thing" was taken in, treated well, fed on the fleeting thoughts and irrational ambitions and unfounded desires of humanity. Gifted with mutations, That Thing eventually became a pet of the court of Tzeentch. Kept in a cage as it gibbered, and gnawed on lost hopes and imagination, or a fuy or two. In all of this feeding, something happened that was...unexpected. The insane meat shield, showed signs of spontaneous mutation , not caused by Tzeentch nor any of his followers or daemons. That Thing had developed a small almost unnoticible tumor on it's back. Tzeentch took interest in this, but contrary to his nature, forgot about it. Soon after (of course there is no true after in the Warp) the tumor began to grow, but not outwards where it would be noticed, but inwards. Again Tzeentch did not notice what was happening. Then when no one noticed "That Thing" had disappeared, his holding cage ripped asunder.

It was not seen again until Khorne noticed a strange hapless thing fighting off several of his bloodcrushers, the battle lust of his minions seemed to be lost on this thing. They would swing at it, and fall short, their juggernauts would stop short of it and vere away as if something else caught it's fancy. Khorne felt something he had not felt before, compassion and desire, and not desire for blood flow and death, but desire to have this thing. Like Tzeentch before him Khorne was swayed by something intangible even by the standards of the warp. The gibbering hapless creature (who's tumor had grown considerably) was now once again a pet to a Chaos God. The Thing proved effective in Khorne's wars against the other Gods, and for some reason he felt this odd feeling of compassion on this thing, even Karanak became distracted and dare it be said playful when around the Blood God's new pet. But as before, unbeknownst to the Blood god or any of his followers , "That Thing" dissappeared. Khore was not the least bit concerned after this point and all continued as normal, he was again the God of war.

That Thing also appeared during one of many battles between Slaanesh and Nurgle. These two having never seen it before, were not so enraptured by it. Nurgle became implacable, and Slaanesh became distraught. Something about this thing was affecting them, but this time it was not so subtle as it had been with Tzeentch and Khorne, and something seemed so wrong about this creature that the two joined forces in the instant of it's appearance to destroy it. Nurgle should have been overjoyed to see this thing who's tumour had grown nearly to bursting making it look like a giant diseased corpuscle. Slaanesh should have taken delight in it's obvious suffering and desired to take it and torment it. But they both acted contrary to their normal selves and found "That Thing" repugnant. Though the Warp is not physical, the mere impression that thing thing left was truly abominable to them. However, intended extermination does not always go as planned. The onslaught of both forces did not go well. For what happened next was "not expected".

As the tides of Daemonettes and Plaguebearers swamped over "That Thing" the Tumor finally burst. For the Tumor was not a tumor at all. It was not pustulent. The tumor was a pupative form of this abominable thing. Now "That Thing" was in danger and it knew it, but it had also fed for long millenia on the mediocrity of humanity, the famine of both the body and the soul that infests and devestates the human race, and in this moment of panic, "That Thing" burst open into full insane majesty. The hapless being gave way for the maddening image of a God. Nurgle and Slaanesh, were instantly released from the mind numbing they had experienced and felt fear. They had bee the catalysts for "That Thing" to become the twin God "Za and Neb". With a fiercness neither had ever seen it laid waste to both their armies and left them, screaming out as it went away, "We are and were Za'Neb", over and over again. Though sound is not found in the warp, the impression was clear, something "somewhat unexpected had occured.

Since these events occured only in the Warp, humanity was spared the birth of Za'Neb, but the warp is no longer the same. The Chaos Powers realize there is a new power, one that they helped create. The shame that the Chaos God's feel is great, especially great Tzeentch, for this was the first time he has had to admit "Za'Neb was a surprise".

sorry saw an inconsistency. I apoligize just change the first section to saw that Za'Neb had no birth Scream or cataclysmic effect on the material universe.

I like it... but you need a symbol of it...

Hmm, not entirely sure.

The traits you suggest "The Thing" has on the Gods goes against each of their very natures. While this may be interesting and a real buff for your character, it unfortunately couldn't happen within the spectrum of the 40K universe.

The Chaos Gods are, for want of a better term, two dimensional. They are entirely composed of and dedicated to the fundamental point of their character. To suggest Tzeencth didn't 'know' something is an oxymoron, as Tzeentch is pretty much a huge pile of 'knowing everything'. And Khorne would not 'desire' after it, so much as desiring to be closer to it so he could whack it with a big hammer.

Plus the instanity and medocrity and all that lovely stuff you talked about at the start is simply fuel for the opther Gods.

Insanity = Tzeentch
Medicrity = Nurgle

And the whole God against the other Gods has already been done also, in Malal. Yeah, admittedly he isn't spoken of much, but he exists.

I think too often people try their own fluff (which is fine) but try to buff their fluff (teehee) to make it challenge and cast aside the previous fluff. The best fluff is the kind that integrates and sits alongside what is already there

This stuff is good, although a tad unlikely considering the rest of the lore ^^

thankyou Seanron. I Did not intend for this God to be "Against" the other Gods in the same fashion as Malal was. Malal was a Renegade God that sought to only destroy the other Gods above anything else. He was entropy embodied Chaos's tendency to destroy itself, but inevitably unable to do so. thankyou to anyone else. I think part of the problem is my choice of words. Though nurgle is an Embodiment of despair, what has described him as an embodiment of mediocrity. I did not say despair in mediocrity, but in fact the event of having hope in mediocrity. Nurgle cannot claim those (as I understand it) that do not succumb to his Plagues (ie nurgles rot) and in despair turn to him to take away their pain, thereafter they begin to rejoice in the world of disease. There are those that serve him (plague marines for example) openly and are in part spared the despair initiation, praising him as Father nurgle. Tzeentch is definitely the God of know it alls but he is definitely not insane himself. I wanted the God to be insane by consequence of the things he fed upon. Za'Neb is irrational, even Khorne in a twisted was is rational (Smash, kill, drink Blood, take skulls, repeat), he follows a pattern. Slaanesh is the same (rub, carress, torture, tempt, repeat). Tzeentch and Nurgle also; Plan, Plan some more, Scheme, Scheme some more, repeat and Stir the pot, disease your wife, see how long it lasts, pop a zit, drink it all, throw it up, repeat. So I agree that they are inherently 2 dimensional. I wanted this God to have an aura of irrationallity, the natures of beings being contradicted. All Tzeentch had to do was know about That Thing, Khorne only had to see That thing, Nurgle and Slaanesh, only had to be near That Thing. That Thing looked at first like a Nurgle dream come true and a satisfaction many tortures enough for Slaanesh in his right mind to desire it. But because they would have loved it, they hated it. Tzeentch and Khorne would have, sought to destroy it, Khorne because well... he just likes to smash things and Tzeentch because he would not welcome another power to wrinkle his plans. The matter of Za'Nebs existance is not to be against the Other Gods, but to be the embodiment of irrationallity, to a Gods extent. Behavior going against it's norm. But even in the case of the Chaos God's in this sketch, they were only effected because they did not know what it was . I wanted Tzeentch to particularly loathe this creature, as it would be the only one that seemed to get the better of him. But I still leave it open, did Tzeentch really not know what would happen, or did he plan the entire thing? With Tzeentch it is impossible to know. I only said that Tzeentch admitted that "Za'Neb was a surprise', this leave it open that this is something he has said, not that it was true. I say that Tzeentch felt robbed, because this being had temporarily robbed him of his Omniscience. For the first time violent and kniving gods felt compassion and jovial and hedonistic Gods felt devestating hatred against those things that they loved. I wanted Za'Neb to weave itself into the lives of the Other Chaos Gods, as it became fully mature because of them. In a manner of speaking, I wanted Za'Neb to be a child of the Chaos Gods. Utterly opposed to them in the Great Game just as they are opposed to each other (honouring the nature of chaos) but in a strange sense, seeing them as it's parents. Cronos was not altogether disimilar to Oranos. Yet he overpowered him. I wanted an equal force, that stole it's identity in part from the other Gods, making it utterly insane, and hence irrational, the conjugation of stray thought and feelings, passions too weak to be used by Slaanesh, ailments too insignificant to feed Nurgle (a stubbed toe for example), deceptions too trivial to be noticed by Tzeentch(white lies) and violences that are unintentional that cannot feed Khorne. This does not mean that such things did not at one time feed these Gods, but that such things are so trivial that they would not notice if another power fed off them. Za'Neb's power flows from volume, the shear volume of the insignificant has fed him. And his mere existence has disturbed the ability of the other God's to counteract him. That is, his arrival was spontaneous, but his maturation was not. He was generated by a stray thought somewhere in the mortal realm, but because Tzeentch and Khorne embraced it, it grew into another God. Unlike slaanesh who was a God on birth, Za'Neb had to grow.
The other Chaos God's definitely drive others to insanity, with their mutations and "gifts" but they are not themselves insane. Za'Neb is insanity, Tzeentch uses insanity, but is not insanity itself. Tzeentch also uses violence, but this does not make him the Blood God, who is violence. Nurgle plans, but his not scheming, Tzeentch is scheming. In the same was that they all identify with a central action, Infection, Scheming, Hedonism and Violence, This God is insanity, and famine. Famine because he feasts on the leftovers of others, the dross of the warp. Those that starve are serving him also, for Za'Neb starves both mind and body. The mind becomes fickle and the body weak. Nothing is immune. I hope this clears some of that up. however I am already making changes according to your notice, thankyou. Cohesion is the largest concern to me. So I will have a rewrite soon. You are correct in stating that the best fluff is the kind that sits alonside what is already there and can readily integrate into it. That is why I did not want to make this God something that was new to the Warp at all, but just not mentioned, In the vastness of the 40k universe there is alot of room for things unsaid. there is still discussion as to whether the Eldar Gods and Gork and Mork are warp beings. Za'neb is not meant to be new persay, just a well kept secret, a shame to the God's of chaos. The history of the warp, while tied to the material universe is strange, everything there neither exists nand (not a mispelling) does not exist (a -P & --P logical formula). The realm of contratidiction, a place where cows can rain side ways and inside out one moment and where solid ground gives way to vapours and two headed lizards the next. Yet that is not even a taste of the confusion that is the Warp. It is entirely possible, and really, quite probable, that Za'Neb both exists and does not exist in the Warp. This is all being developed for a self made supplement, other fluff will be filled in and integrated into the universe as it progresses. Do not take me for a kid that decided to do this lightly. I never do anything lightly. I am not even a kid, but judging my own proof read of the sketch, it sort of reads on second look like something I would have written when I was 14, certainly not up to my own standards. I will try to get a better sketch up soon.

I like it... but you need a symbol of it...

Yes you are quite right Athlon. I am currently doing so. It will likely be a modification of the Aleph Null symbol, used in set theory represent both the empty set (null set) and also infinity. I think it is a good representation of the nature of the beast. A creature infinite emptiness and insanity.

Thankyou all so much

ok had some thoughts. I am starting almost from scratch now. Everytime I do some research into the Chaos Gods it becomes more and more evident, that what they represent, while fairly consistent, is somewhat opinion dependent. that is everybody seems to have their own view of the identities of the Chaos Gods. I would like to run with the idea of having a Chaos Spawn that survives so many mutations, from all the Gods that he himself eventually becomes a God himself, being different from but an amalgamation of the other Chaos Gods. Almost the antithesis of Be'Lakor. Be'Lackor in WHFB was (I am pretty sure you know) the first Daemon Prince of Chaos Undivided, once nearly powerful enough to overthrow the Chaos Gods (or maybe just arrogant enough), he lost much of his power and has endeavored to recover it. There are two paths that can be followed by mortal champions (or any organism for that matter) of Chaos. One is to become a great immortal Daemon Prince. The other is to succumb to the gifts of Chaos and become a mindless Chaos Spawn. I am getting part of the idea from jibberjaw and Gorefeaster. Both are basically chaos Spawn of Khorne and Nurlge Respectively, yet their power is massive. I am thinking the first Chaos Spawn, one that has now endured so many gifts of chaos and not died that it is no longer mortal or containable in flesh. It would be a God of Chaos, but be separate in origin from the other Gods. You know I read what I write after i write it and realize, My gosh am I stupid, there are so many holes in what I just said it is just amazing. Hereafter is a list of possible emotional "food" that this creature may adopt. Tell me which is best.

Panic (Might be Khornate, what do you think?), Paranoia (I cannot find any source that says Tzeentch is a God of Paranoia, nor anything that says so, if anything he is a God of Confidence), Suicidal tendencies, reproductive instinct (not the slaanesh satisfy the flesh kind), depression (not the kind that leads to defiance like what Nurgle intends), disdain, crudeness, pain (not enjoy the pain like Slaanesh), religous overzealousness (not Slaaneshi excess for enjoyment), maddness (Ok I still don't think Tzeentch has the monopoly on this), Mediocrity (not in the Nurgly sense, he only endorses mediocrity to a point that makes mortals wish to defy that mediocrity) I am talking ignorance of ones mediocrity and being ok with it, ignorance (I checked, definitely not Nurgle, Nurgle very much wants his followers to be knowledgable of things, as he takes a very keen interest in his followers, well for a Chaos God), malice (OK maybe this is a little bit Khornate, but Khorne is more about killing than hating), rebellion (I know, been done before Malal had this trait, but why not use it?), disappointment (No, No,No this is not Nurgly, Nurgle does not want his followers nor any of his demons to relish disappointment, nor experience it, in fact he wants the opposite for them so long as they follow him).

I would go with panic and paranoia myself. it is an emotion altogether separate from anything I have read about the Chaos Gods. I am also quite close to the emotion myself, before I started taking medication, it was my personal daemon. I was never antisocial, but often I would get panic attacks that turned me into someone I was not. I think this might therefore be my best choice. It does not have the enduring connection to madness that one might find inflicted by Tzeentch, but is potent, I think I can write about a character that I have felt like better than one I have not. I will attempt a much better rewrite soon, Just finished midterms should have some more time. Thankyou all

Sorry if i missed this somewhere ,

which (trait?) does this Chaos God have?

like khorn = blood , nurgle = filth, tzeentch = change.

za'neb = ?

Sorry if i missed this somewhere ,

which (trait?) does this Chaos God have?

like khorn = blood , nurgle = filth, tzeentch = change.

za'neb = ?

Sorry, I just wrote a post on this. Please let me know what you think.