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Lets put aside the 'but you can't actually move withing 1" of vehicles during a ram' argument for now, fun as it is.

Scenario:
Opponent drives vehicle up to 5" from my tank.
I declare a maximum speed ram movement (12"), move forward, and collide with the vehicle.

Does the ram work? I argued that the tank shock movement requirement of moving at least combat speed referred only to the declared distance, opponent argued that I hadn't physically moved combat speed so the ram was invalid.

For other arguments, I noted that ramming vehicles must move their maximum speed... so with his version my target would have to be exactly 12" away every time. The example in the book is a 10" ram.
As another scenario, I brought up that everyone I've ever seen play allowed you to tank shock infantry units closer than six inches. Those units could disable the tank with a death or glory attack, creating a scenario where the original tank shock movement is illegal if the reference is to actual distance traveled.

His interpretation doesn't make sense to me at all, but he was quite insistent.
I'm fairly certain I'm right, but I'll ask anyway.

Yes, the ram works. If you look in the entry under ramming, it states that you get +1 strength for every 3 inches you move.
Therefore, let us assume you are ramming his hellhound (av 12) with your vindicator(av13).
First you declare the distance you are moving. You say 12.
Next you measure the distance between you and the tank. You measure and the distance is 5 inches. Next is a series of math. You would get +1 strength for every 3 inches moved, in this case 5/3=1.66666666 (round down).
Then you get +1 strength for being a tank.
Next you get +1 strength for every point of armor over 10, your vindicator would get +3 (av13).
Last you total it all up. You have +1 for moving, +1 for being a tank, +3 for av13. The total is a strength 5 hit. (which can't hurt the enemy unless in the rear armor)
Once you are done resolving, your opponent does the same formula for you using your speed traveled, and delivering a hit back.

In most cases moving under 6 inches isn't going to do much, but I hope this helps.

rednekgunner wrote:
In most cases moving under 6 inches isn't going to do much, but I hope this helps.

I understand this, and how the collision rules work, I just wanted confirmation that I was able to perform the action to begin with and have a legal ram collision that gave those results.

Combat speed is any distance beyond 1 planck length and up to 6"

Even if you only move an Inch, you can ram. The only restriction is you cannot Pivot and cause a Tankshock/Ram.

Gwar! wrote:Combat speed is any distance beyond 1 planck length and up to 6"

Even if you only move an Inch, you can ram. The only restriction is you cannot Pivot and cause a Tankshock/Ram.

Fair enough, but maximum speed is also a ramming requirement which is where that >6" comes from.

And you cannot shock/ram in contact, correct?

The position that the ram becomes invalid if the tank can't move at its highest speed does seem unreasonable. It's more reasonable to take "...must always move at the highest speed its capable of" as moving as far as possible given the obstacles and other units on the board and the tank's own rules.

I mean, if your opponent succeeded in a death or glory against the tank after 4", and the tank gets immobilized, it's silly if he says, "Ha, ha. Now you're cheating because your tank only moved four inches," right?

solkan wrote:The position that the ram becomes invalid if the tank can't move at its highest speed does seem unreasonable. It's more reasonable to take "...must always move at the highest speed its capable of" as moving as far as possible given the obstacles and other units on the board and the tank's own rules.

I mean, if your opponent succeeded in a death or glory against the tank after 4", and the tank gets immobilized, it's silly if he says, "Ha, ha. Now you're cheating because your tank only moved four inches," right?

That was answered by Gwar. If you moved at all, you moved combat speed.
Now I'm just wondering if the maximum ram requirement limits you to 6.01"-12" for ramming, or if that only refers to the declared distance.

Gorkamorka wrote:

solkan wrote:The position that the ram becomes invalid if the tank can't move at its highest speed does seem unreasonable. It's more reasonable to take "...must always move at the highest speed its capable of" as moving as far as possible given the obstacles and other units on the board and the tank's own rules.

I mean, if your opponent succeeded in a death or glory against the tank after 4", and the tank gets immobilized, it's silly if he says, "Ha, ha. Now you're cheating because your tank only moved four inches," right?

That was answered by Gwar. If you moved at all, you moved combat speed.
Now I'm just wondering if the maximum ram requirement limits you to 6.01"-12" for ramming, or if that only refers to the declared distance.

You're missing the point. If a regular vehicle rams, it has to try to move at cruising speed, because that's the highest speed at which a normal vehicle can go. The actual speed at which a vehicle is counted as moving is still going to be determined by how far the vehicle actually moved.

So let's say that you have your tank 10" away from an enemy vehicle, but in between the two is a squad of guys. You declare the ram, move your tank forward and after moving 4" come into contact with a very lucky trooper with a chainfist. The chainfist guy does a death or glory and your tank is immobilized.

So, according to one interpretation of the ramming rules, the tank was required to move at cruising speed (the highest speed it was capable of), but it's only moved at combat speed. So under that interpretation the tank has now performed an illegal ram because it became immobilized.

If you instead interpret the ramming rules as "move at the fastest speed it is capable of, given whatever happens and the various obstacles in the way", then the 4" prematurely ended ram is okay, and so is the 10" ram in your original post.

solkan wrote:
If you instead interpret the ramming rules as "move at the fastest speed it is capable of, given whatever happens and the various obstacles in the way", then the 4" prematurely ended ram is okay, and so is the 10" ram in your original post.

I understand that, and that's my interperetation. However, now that I've been reminded that cruising speed is only 6.01"-12" I'm certain my opponent will argue that declaring a ram at 5" means that if I don't destroy the tank then the ram was illegal because I didn't move in the correct speed bracket as required by his interpretation (and therefor I shouldn't be allowed to do it).

The language in the book could be read in his fashion, and the example doesn't support either side, unless I'm missing something.
Anything I can throw at him other than "that doesn't make sense, here are some examples where that would be dumb" like I did last time would be appreciated, as would agreement from a few other people so I can point him to the thread.

Gorkamorka wrote:However, now that I've been reminded that cruising speed is only 6.01"-12" I'm certain my opponent will argue that declaring a ram at 5" means that if I don't destroy the tank then the ram was illegal because I didn't move in the correct speed bracket as required by his interpretation (and therefor I shouldn't be allowed to do it).

That doesn't make any sense, sorry.

If you satisfy all of the conditions of Ramming before the ram is attempted, the ram can't possibly be declared invalid after the fact.


The Ramming rules don't require the vehicle to actually move its greatest possible movement distance... you just have to declare that it is doint so. Whether or not it actually moves that far depends on the result of the ram.


SO, you have a vehicle 5" away. You declare that your tank is going to move 12" (as the tank must move as fast as possible) and attempt a Ram.
You move the 5" into contact with the enemy. Since this is 'moving at least Combat speed' you have satisfied the condition for making a Ram, and so you can resolve that Ram.
If the enemy vehicle explodes, you continue your movement, stopping at the 12" mark.
If the enemy vehicle doesn't explode, your tank halts because it can not move any further forwards. Retroactively cancelling the Ram at this point would make no sense whatsoever, and is not supported by the rules in any way.

insaniak wrote:

The Ramming rules don't require the vehicle to actually move its greatest possible movement distance... you just have to declare that it is doint so. Whether or not it actually moves that far depends on the result of the ram.

Thanks for the support.

In case you're confused my opponents point was that the rules state that during a ram the tank "must move at the highest speed it is capable of", that speed in 40k is measured by distance traveled, that the rules do not state that this is the 'declared' distance, and that if I cannot reach that speed before I impact a vehicle and stop that the ram impact/damage is invalid. I agree that this makes no sense.

Gorkamorka wrote:In case you're confused my opponents point was that the rules state that during a ram the tank "must move at the highest speed it is capable of",

Which it does. But that movement may simply be interrupted by the vehicle into which the tank is ramming.