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I play often against a tau player . I'm often frustrated that when I hit one of his suits , that has a shield drone , with a high power weapon only the drone gets removed if he fials the save. Even if the weapon would be strong enough to pulp the drone the tau and most of the surrounding area. The drone just lets out a fzzt, falls to the floor and the tau goes merrilly on its way. Is this interpretation of the rules correct? or

If a weapon does only one wound to a unit, the owning player decides which model takes the hit, so he can choose the drone.

You're not clearly saying what happens by including so much fluff. It's treated as a member of the unit which has the same armour save as that of its controller, but also with a 4+ invulnerable save. If by "he fials the save" you mean the drone fails its save, then that's correct yes.

If you manage to do more wounds than models in the unit, he would have to make a save on the suit. That's one way around the Shield Drone's protection.

n0t_u wrote:If you manage to do more wounds than models in the unit, he would have to make a save on the suit. That's one way around the Shield Drone's protection.

Equal or more.

The best way to deal with Invulnerable save models is not to fire High Strength/Low AP Weapons at them.

Half the time they do nothing.

Instead just fire bucketloads of small arms fire at them.

They have to roll a 1 sometime!

Gwar! wrote:The best way to deal with Invulnerable save models is not to fire High Strength/Low AP Weapons at them.

Half the time they do nothing.

Instead just fire bucketloads of small arms fire at them.

They have to roll a 1 sometime!

2+ save takes an awful lot of dakka to cause a failed save. You can go ahead and shoot your meltas and all that, just make sure you bring enough to spread around.

On average . . . 6 shots. That is not an "awful lot of dakka" in my book.

kirsanth wrote:On average . . . 6 shots. That is not an "awful lot of dakka" in my book.

Not quite ...
On average 6 wounds you mean. If the BS is 3 and the strength of the weapon is 4 that requires 24 shots. Even then you take 3 wounds on the Shield drone and 3 wounds on the commander.

BS 3 with a bolter S4 AP5 and 12 wounds needed (6 for shield drone, 6 for commander)
24 hits required since only 50% will wound
Only 50% will hit so 48 shots required.
Adjust according to various BS and Weapons.

If feel no pain is involved ... double the shots again to 96 since half will be negated. Oh and it takes 2 wounds to kill it unless it's ID'ed.

For Meltas with BS of 3
2 wounds needed
4 hits required.
8 shots required.
Feel no pain doesn't make a difference.

Lascannons are the same as meltas.

Fair enough.
But I was relating it to the fact that 2+ save was the only stipulation to cause the "awful lot of dakka" comment.

6 shots that wound will, on average, get a model with a 2+ save to fail that save.

What you do with shield drones is flog them with lots of low power shots, and attack the bare Broadside with high power shots when you have blown off the drones.

The added benefit is that the drones count towards the morale of the Broadside unit, so it's possible you can make them retreat just by shooting down the drones.

Kilkrazy wrote:The added benefit is that the drones count towards the morale of the Broadside unit, so it's possible you can make them retreat just by shooting down the drones.

Every time I do this I smile as I imagine him cradling the drone in his arms as it dies "Jimmy! Nooooooooooooooooooooooo!"

Kilkrazy wrote:What you do with shield drones is flog them with lots of low power shots, and attack the bare Broadside with high power shots when you have blown off the drones.

The added benefit is that the drones count towards the morale of the Broadside unit, so it's possible you can make them retreat just by shooting down the drones.

And that's why you should always take a bonding knife if you have more than 3 models in your precious. A commander with 2 shield drones ... morale test on losing 1. Losing the second he flees and can't regroup unless he has a BK so it wouldn't matter if you wanted to ID him or not.

rogueeyes wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:What you do with shield drones is flog them with lots of low power shots, and attack the bare Broadside with high power shots when you have blown off the drones.

The added benefit is that the drones count towards the morale of the Broadside unit, so it's possible you can make them retreat just by shooting down the drones.

And that's why you should always take a bonding knife if you have more than 3 models in your precious. A commander with 2 shield drones ... morale test on losing 1. Losing the second he flees and can't regroup unless he has a BK so it wouldn't matter if you wanted to ID him or not.

Ummm, isn't the commander an IC and once alone, he is going to ignore that whole below 50% thing?

Aren't we talking about Broadsides?

Thanks for that. So its the same old thing , get rid of the shield drones ( with lower strenth guns ) first, then , warm up the meltas , lascannons for the final kill.

Gwar! wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:The added benefit is that the drones count towards the morale of the Broadside unit, so it's possible you can make them retreat just by shooting down the drones.

Every time I do this I smile as I imagine him cradling the drone in his arms as it dies "Jimmy! Nooooooooooooooooooooooo!"

Not surprising, given how often you play against tau.

"My frisbee!"

rogueeyes wrote:
And that's why you should always take a bonding knife if you have more than 3 models in your precious. A commander with 2 shield drones ... morale test on losing 1. Losing the second he flees and can't regroup unless he has a BK so it wouldn't matter if you wanted to ID him or not.

Drones taken as wargear only count for the purposes of determining 25% casualties, the ability to claim objectives (4th Ed, no longer applies) and to determine if the unit is below 50% for VP purposes (4th Ed may still apply under certain circumstances). No mention of regrouping. So a 88 with two shield drones and loses both may still regroup.

Cheers

Andrew

The drone is considered it's own model with it's own stat line. Thus if you cause one wound he may allocate the one wound onto a drone. It's highly annoying to others but us tau players love it.

whitedragon wrote:

Gwar! wrote:The best way to deal with Invulnerable save models is not to fire High Strength/Low AP Weapons at them.

Half the time they do nothing.

Instead just fire bucketloads of small arms fire at them.

They have to roll a 1 sometime!

2+ save takes an awful lot of dakka to cause a failed save. You can go ahead and shoot your meltas and all that, just make sure you bring enough to spread around.

You have obviously never seen the pathetic amount of fire it takes to kill Terminators in my games...

AndrewC wrote:

rogueeyes wrote:
And that's why you should always take a bonding knife if you have more than 3 models in your precious. A commander with 2 shield drones ... morale test on losing 1. Losing the second he flees and can't regroup unless he has a BK so it wouldn't matter if you wanted to ID him or not.

Drones taken as wargear only count for the purposes of determining 25% casualties, the ability to claim objectives (4th Ed, no longer applies) and to determine if the unit is below 50% for VP purposes (4th Ed may still apply under certain circumstances). No mention of regrouping. So a 88 with two shield drones and loses both may still regroup.

Cheers

Andrew

That doesn't convince me that drones aren't counted for other unit tests, such as regrouping. They're essentially described as part of the unit, and somehow manage other general unit rules (such as wound allocation) without needing it explicitly mentioned.

Edit: Typo... missed a very important word.

AndrewC wrote:

rogueeyes wrote:
And that's why you should always take a bonding knife if you have more than 3 models in your precious. A commander with 2 shield drones ... morale test on losing 1. Losing the second he flees and can't regroup unless he has a BK so it wouldn't matter if you wanted to ID him or not.

Drones taken as wargear only count for the purposes of determining 25% casualties, the ability to claim objectives (4th Ed, no longer applies) and to determine if the unit is below 50% for VP purposes (4th Ed may still apply under certain circumstances). No mention of regrouping. So a 88 with two shield drones and loses both may still regroup.

Cheers

Andrew

Woah what? I'll have to read through this again and see. Can you state some resource for it? I thought they counted as models thus counted as part of the unit for total model count. You may be correct however since technically they can be considered wargear. This may change around some of my play strategies.

Tau Codex, P31. Second paragraph under the boxed section on drones. The one situation conspicuous by its total absence is regrouping.

Andrew

AndrewC wrote:The one situation conspicuous by its total absence is regrouping.

Andrew

Why 'the one'? Why not initiative tests? Or morale tests for losing combat (negative modifiers)? Do enemies shooting at 2 crisis suits with 4 drones take the majority toughness to be that of the crisis suits? Do enemies ignore drones when determining whether or not the UNIT is in cover? The drones are wargear, as you say. Nothing more.

Ridcully wrote:
Why 'the one'? Why not initiative tests? Or morale tests for losing combat (negative modifiers)? Do enemies shooting at 2 crisis suits with 4 drones take the majority toughness to be that of the crisis suits? Do enemies ignore drones when determining whether or not the UNIT is in cover? The drones are wargear, as you say. Nothing more.

Because (most of) those conditions did not exist when the rules were written and to a degree have been addessed elsewhere in the rules.

Andrew

Gwar! wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:The added benefit is that the drones count towards the morale of the Broadside unit, so it's possible you can make them retreat just by shooting down the drones.

Every time I do this I smile as I imagine him cradling the drone in his arms as it dies "Jimmy! Nooooooooooooooooooooooo!"

Yeah, doesn't make much sense does it? Marines don't have to run when their tanks are popped. Why would Tau care if unmanned drones are shot down..?

Edit: Sorry, a bit off topic...

agnosto wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:The added benefit is that the drones count towards the morale of the Broadside unit, so it's possible you can make them retreat just by shooting down the drones.

Every time I do this I smile as I imagine him cradling the drone in his arms as it dies "Jimmy! Nooooooooooooooooooooooo!"

Yeah, doesn't make much sense does it? Marines don't have to run when their tanks are popped. Why would Tau care if unmanned drones are shot down..?

Especially when drones are suppose to be 'disposable' ... kinda like a regular soldier is in the imperial guard.

After the Tau Empire codex was published I sent several pages of questions to GW, of which one was answered (Sniper Drones.) About half my questions were about drones. They are the most effed up section of rules in the game.

Kilkrazy wrote:After the Tau Empire codex was published I sent several pages of questions to GW, of which one was answered (Sniper Drones.) About half my questions were about drones. They are the most effed up section of rules in the game.

You said it.

One can only hope that when GW finally gets around to maknig a tau book (about the time they make 6th edition and make it obsolete), they'll clear it all up.

Kilkrazy wrote:After the Tau Empire codex was published I sent several pages of questions to GW, of which one was answered (Sniper Drones.) About half my questions were about drones. They are the most effed up section of rules in the game.

Did you get any replies?

Of course the real fun is sending the Questions 3 times and getting 4 different answers