I might never do commission work again!!!

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**radiohazard**

Two of the guys that asked me to do some converting for them have pulled out after I got all the materials for them.

They asked me to get them because they didn't know where to start looking - so I did - and now when they owe me £50 each they pull out.

This has annihilated my calm.

On a sort of plus note, the third guy who ordered a commission (2 DE warrior squads) gave me SEVEN Khorne Juggernauts and a load of berzerker bits instead of payment.

I consider that win.

**malfred**

Don't you do a deposit system? That might encourage them to have you finish the job.

**radiohazard**

malfred wrote:Don't you do a deposit system? That might encourage them to have you finish the job.

Yup - £10, which was paid by all except the guy who gave me the Khorne stuff.

**FreekyE**

Thats capitalism for ya.

**GoFenris**

How about something closer to 25% - 35% of a deposit for the job estimate? Heck even 50% if your rep is solid.

Of course, unless you have a good reputation, it may hinder your ability to make sales. But if they bail anyway, what have you got to lose?

**Empchild**

hrmm thats to bad to hear honestly. I have never had problems with payments whatso ever when it came to commission. Now ebay that is another whole can of worms. I have had tons of people try too weasel out of payments or wanting refunds claiming to not recieve the product... do they realize I do tracking. What is it with people after you make a deal they back down. hence why now a days I do typed contracts for commission. That way if I have to go to civil court for the more expensive ones I have backing.

**Kilkrazy**

If you are serious, a typed up contract is a good idea because it is binding on both sides.

**warboss**

you should do it like contractors in the US do... take half up front from materials and half upon successful completion. if you don't have a strong internet rep for conversions/trades (no idea if you do), you may have a hard time getting them to fork over the money first but at least you'll never be totally scammed.

**DeathTyrant**

Do you have anywhere that displays your work, or are you just doing odd jobs here and there on the side?

I happily paid 100% up front for a Forge World Chaplain Dread job myself, so for you it must be annoying to have people pull out like that. :(

**Empchild**

I feel at least in part that a contract is more professtional due to multiple reasons besides the money. In the contract personaly I state the date I will take to do the model/models, and also the quoted price that will not change. To often have I heard people say oo it took to many months and was over priced. I once years ago before I did my own a Demon winner out of medford Oregon to do a progect for me and paid him 1k up from and another 1500 in product up front. All he had to do was convert 40 ogre models for me and it took him almost 3 years do to lazyness. By the time it was done I was so annoyed I jold them to try and recoup the loss. Personally I consider my prices solid. I tell people for basic 1850 $500-$1000 depending on conversions model counts and such. I paint it to get max scores in a tourney, and thats that. I don't personally try and overcharge cause believe me I make much more money doing now what I do so this is just for fun. Anywho I digressed from my origonal point.
Another idea is wait to buy the materials until you have the product in hand. I do that with new customers since I do no money down. And I also learned to do payments with people if need be. So if it takes them 4 months to pay then it takes them 4 months to get their army. Keeps all parties honest. btw if interested alexanderakers@yahoo.com or http://akersminis.blogspot.com/ . Im starting to post progect and such always love feed back.

**radiohazard**

I don't have contracts but I may have to in the future.

The work was for a couple of guys that have seen my work in other peoples armies and really liked it.

One was Chaos Lord + Chosen Retinue conversions and the other was a Mega Armoured Ork Warboss conversion + Meganobz to be painted.

I'm a little annoyed, but the Juggernauts and bits have made up for this a little. I think I've got around 50 Berserkers out of the bits too.

**Wayfarer**

You really should make sure that all new clients pay 100% materials cost up front until you can build up a rapport with them. This is such a common practice (protects you from them backing out after purchasing materials) among commission painters/sculptors (and other proffessions) that no one should take issue.

As much as you want to make the customer happy you must always think about your own well being and take the necessary precautions.

Personally I take %100 of any miniatures and bits costs up front as well as %50 of the labor cost. Then the remaining %50 plus shipping upon completion of the project. I've yet to encounter anyone who had a problem with this.

**Pherion**

I'm there with Wayfarer. If someone wants me to buy parts or miniatures on my end, they have to pay for them first. Just makes scene.

**Clang**

Yup, a 100% materials cost deposit sounds a sensible policy to me.

**Kilkrazy**

Totally agree.

Another thing I thought of is that if you are taking this seriously, you will be in business for years and build up a rep.

However, most of your clients are likely to be one-offs.

In other words, they will know a lot more about you than you will about them.

This is the situation economists call asymmetric information.

In this situation, the side with less knowledge has to regard the missing information as an extra risk factor and price it into their side of the deal.

You need to establish your terms and conditions early in your painting career, in order to establish trust, and the T&Cs must adequately protect you from unscrupulous or careless clients.

So demand the materials costs plus a good percentage of the painting costs up front. If the buyer welches on the deal, your painted figures are going to be worth a lot less than they cost.

**ImperialTard**

"Post thier naems and phone numbers and say dont do business with them again!!!"

Seriously though, maybe someone else is interested in the same or a similar conversion-- perhaps you could try posting a thread in the "trading" forum and begin with "[H] very specific DE conversion bits; [W] justification for buying them."

**radiohazard**

They are locals and don't even know what Dakka Dakka is - Heretic Scum, ignorance is an excuse and excuses are the refuge of the weak.

I'm not in this for a business. I've just done this to earn a bit of cash on the side and to keep up with my own skills.

TBH - I'm going to take a break from commission work as I have a film script deadline looming over my head.