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I absolutely hate FW hating noobs who refuse to allow any FW models.

The real truth is: most FW models are overpriced for what they do and in fact handicap you. People play with them for their uniqueness and for modeling.

In reality, 15 yr old kids to rules Nazis with their exploit all advantages and win at all cost attitudes stick it to you if you use any Forge World models claiming they are broken. Its like they are jealous of not having the money to actually get FW models themselves so they intentionally ruin your day.

For e.g. The Imperial Guard Salamander 55 points for a open-top model with no transport capacity and you can't carry anything heavier than a Autocannon (Only a heavy bolter if its a Command Salamander) <- How the hell is this Broken in ANY WAY? Yet these people will still refuse to allow them.

ugh.

Its like this in my normal club, but I'm wondering what tournament planners are not a@@holes and allow FW models? I heard Adepticon allows them? What about the GTs? or other RTTs?

Forgeworld models-Fine
Forgeworld rules-No way, there usualy broken and unbalanced, use FW rules in bigger games only.

DoranGray wrote:In reality, 15 yr old kids to rules Nazis with their exploit all advantages and win at all cost attitudes stick it to you if you use any Forge World models claiming they are broken. Its like they are jealous of not having the money to actually get FW models themselves so they intentionally ruin your day.

Im fifteen years old and Im not jealous of your ultra expensive FW model, your the ones paying silly amounts of money for a toy soldier.

Typical Forge World hater above ^

FW Rules are fine. They are overcosted for what they do.

Meh, I wouldn't allow you to use FW rules in a normal game. If it was apocalypse, then yes I would. But not in a real game.

Some Forge World models are not only limited to Apoc.

Games Workshop should really just come out and say FW rules are all legal to kick all the FW haters in the balls.

The tournament Astronomicon in Canada takes place in Vancouver, Winnipeg and Toronto. They have allowed Imperial armor stuff. I'm sure if you asked they would not have a problem with whatever FW stuff you want to use.

While I agree that most FW stuff is too expensive to be purchased, they do have alot of nice models and some units I wish were in the codex. A good example is a landspeeder tempest.

DorianGray wrote:I absolutely hate FW hating noobs who refuse to allow any FW models.

The real truth is: most FW models are overpriced for what they do and in fact handicap you. People play with them for their uniqueness and for modeling.

If what you are saying is true, then I would not mind playing against Forge World.

But the fact is that there are a lot of crappy units or overpriced items in the Forge World books, but you will never see them in a tournament. If you allow forge world in tournaments, all you will see are all of the units that are broken because they are so good.

Adepticon allows forge world to different degrees in their tournaments, and in the Gladiator Tournament where everything is allowed, what you saw were only the most brutal units.

I have a FW modeled Tyrant with Wings. I love it and its legal in all games.

It depends on the Models you get some are only acceptable with Imperial Armor rules allowed. Honestly, most of the stuff that isn't just a replaced model for something already in the Codex's is very expensive to field and almost impossible in normal games without severely handicapping yourself. Yes they might be uber units in their own right, but I've noticed if I tried to incorporate the Tyranids FW IA stuff into my army I lack heavily in other areas.

Well, If you're using something like a warhound in a 1000pts game I will mind. But if you use like, an aquilla in a 2000pts game or some defense turrets, I wont mind. And the Battlefields tournament (best one there is) allow Forge World models.

Blackmoor wrote:But the fact is that there are a lot of crappy units or overpriced items in the Forge World books, but you will never see them in a tournament. If you allow forge world in tournaments, all you will see are all of the units that are broken because they are so good.

Agreed. Everyone complains about how GW can't playtest well or get things balanced. Guess what, FW does even less playtesting and cares less if their rules are balanced. It's not always the obvious cheese, it's sometimes the subtle stuff. Taking the Trojan recovery vehicle in fourth edition as your mandatory troops - it was cheap and relatively durable, and you could hide it behind your other tanks without losing anything since it had no offensive capabilities. Taking defensive turrets in fourth just to force target priority tests on your opponent. A lot of the FW rules are over-pointed, but there's a sufficient quantity of broken stuff that I recommend against FW in tournies. If you like your FW Salamander, just let it 'count as' a command chimera or similar and play with it as such.

To tell the truth, I don't really mind playing against some light FW Models like a Malantharope or something, but I would never play aginst like, a TITAN or an Eldar Titan in a normal game, maybe in apocalypse. Maybe those kids are just scared of how big they are and how scary they look. lol

I'm with Dorian on this, mainly because I enjoy dropping Elysian Drop Sentinels out of a valk.

Eat it noobs

Forgeworld website wrote:Q1. Is Forge World part of Games Workshop.

A1. Yes, but we operate as a small (but, perfectly formed) seperate division from the company that makes and sells the main Games Workshop range of products. We are not connected with the US company that used the same name many years back for production of resin WH40K vehicles under licence.

Explain why using rules and models from the same company for the same game is unacceptable?

I'd be fine with infantry and basic tanks, but anything extreme I'd say Apoc only. I enjoy FW stuff and have always thought about buying some. My next army may be made with some FW stuff, but right now I think I'll leave it to mainstream GW producs.

Pretty much I'm fine with it if it's reasonable. Plopping a Warhound down in a standard game though would get a "No" from me. I can't see why your gaming group won't allow a Salamander. I'd plop it down anyway and tell them that if they don't like the fact that you're using a vehicle with a decent and fair ruleset, then they can forfeit the game and just take the loss for being a TFG

Red9 wrote:I'm with Dorian on this, mainly because I enjoy dropping Elysian Drop Sentinels out of a valk.

Eat it noobs

The people who dont like forgeworld rules aint noobs, there people who want a fun and balanced rule set.

There are probaly alot of these so called 'noobs' who dont like forgeworld models who could destroy you and your broken forgeworld units.

Explain why using rules and models from the same company for the same game is unacceptable?

Because those rules are not in the armies codex.

If you you don't feel threatened by FW models, then why don't you allow them? Also, IA are expansions to the GW codeci.

Red9 wrote:If you you don't feel threatened by FW models, then why don't you allow them?

I hate to repeat myself but

people who want a fun and balanced rule set.

You are definately in the wrong game if that's what you're after. lol

So... if you don't feel threatened by FW rules, then you don't think they are too powerful/imba
So therefore... you must think that either FW things are by default not fun (uhh... no) or that their underpoweredness (they are) makes the game imbalanced. Nice thinking there bud.

Many of the FW rules are over-powered, and shouldn't really be used in a normal game,
however if you allow the underpowered models then you should have to allow the overpowered models.

Many? The only one that I can think of off the top of my head is the deathwind drop pods. Most everything else sucks.

Lucius Pods, 35 pt Rhinos for old codices.

2 right off the top of my head there.

The general rule of FW is "ogrynize" stuff. Make it serve a useful purpose, BUT point stack it to be useless. Or vice versa, stack the points cheap and usable, but the model/unit serves no purpose that another unit can do better.

I have a forgeworld model.

But it's compatible with normal rules.

The German GT this year allowed FW models, but only those with 1 structural points.

I ran a couple of tournaments linked to my old website, and we allowed FW models in with three restrictions, as I recall:

1, Nothing with structure or mass points.
2, No flyers.
3, No special characters (bearing in mind this was 3rd ed, so no SC was standard, so we were really just reiterating the point).

I can see that models falling into categories 1 or 2 may cause problems in the average game of 40k, but the vast majority of FW stuff that I've seen and/or used (though this only covers IAs 1-4) is, as was stated above, over-priced and under-powered.

While I haven't entered any of the tournaments in my area, we seem to have a mix of FW allowance. Tournaments that are designed around a core of more experienced players tend to be more FW friendly. Tournaments that focus more toward newer or a general mix of players tend to stay away from this. Many of the things stated in this thread get said in our local forums.

However, the one argument that I don't see for not allowing FW is the general attainability of the rules. It's rather difficult to impossible to roll into your FLGS and pick up a copy of IA just to browse the rules. The price of the books is prohibitive for just knowing what your opponents might bring.