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Hi!

I just bought the new SW codex and when I read the longfang entry in the army list i asked myself: "Can a Long Fang Squad Leader be equipped with heavy weapons these days?"

As far as i know they've never been able to (not in the 2nd or the 3rd edition codexes)

But the Long Fang options section states that: "Each Long Fang apart from the Squad Leader must replace his bolt pistol with one of the following:..."

I believe you can interpret this in two different ways.

Either as in: The squad leader may but mustn't choose a heavy weapon apart from his troopers who clearly must choose a heavy weapon.

Or as in (which is more likely but not very clearly stated): The Squad Leader can't choose a heavy weapon apart from his troopers who must choose a heavy weapon.


Anyone got an answer?

Since the sentence you quoted excludes the Squad leader, it doesn't apply to him at all. He's allowed to buy off of the list that specifically applies to him, just above that heavy weapons list.

Indeed. The bit only applies to the regular Long Fangs. Saying "apart from the Squad Leader" doesn't allow him the same just without the 'mandatory' bit. It only allows what it allows.

In any case, the Squad leader is a Squad Leader, not a Long Fang, as indicated on his profile

I do agree with you guys, mostly because I think that's the most resonable interpretation given the state of things. So I won't buy my Squad Leader a HW.

But if you read the text as it is you could also say that since the author makes a differece between Long Fangs and the Squad Leader only to tell that though being a Long Fang he does not have to take a HW he sort of implies that the Squad Leader as far as the text is concerned still is a Long Fang thus being able to take a HW. Its already stated that the squad consists of a Squad Leader and 1-5 Long Fangs, so they are already clearly devided. This makes the "apart from the Squad Leader" statement unnecessary unless the Squad Leader in this case (in the view of the author) counts as any other Long Fang (exept for his special rules, specialized equipment and the ability to choose whether or not to be equipped with a HW)...

This is just thoughts and I'm not 100% serious but I do think the text is vaguely phrased.

No squad leaders cannot have heavy weapons. But then again that is not why you buy them, you buy them for their fire-splitting ability. Which they can only use if they do not fire anyway.

Aramoro

i take them and a heavy bolter armed long fang simply for ablative wounds. the heavy bolter goes first and then the sergeant. the two lascannons magically always survive until the end.

Unless you take more than 2 wounding hits per time, in which case you are forced to allocate onto the otehr members of the squad.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Unless you take more than 2 wounding hits per time, in which case you are forced to allocate onto the otehr members of the squad.

very true. that rarely happens though since i tend to put them WAAAYYY back in the deployment zone in cover where only other 36-48" range weapons can hit them. between actually having to be in range, hit, and wound, not too many rounds make it inbound. the thunderwolves hurtling towards the enemies lines as well as two greyhunter rhinos and a full bloodclaw squad tend to take most of the incoming heavy fire. the old men usually just take pot shots from the back while having a few beers and smoking a cigar or two.

I rather like the 20 point Heavy bolter Long Fangs on their own merits...

Jack

Jackmojo wrote:I rather like the 20 point Heavy bolter Long Fangs on their own merits...

Jack

25 point Missile Launchers/Multi meltas are far better IMO.

Lascannons still suck bawls tho.

HBs are not classed as small arms fire. 15 S5 AP4 shots will shred a lot of units including terminators and MCs.

G

9 hits. 6 wounds. 1 dead terminator. Not exactly awe-inspiring. Even against orks, it's only 6 dead orks (assuming no cover, with cover, it's only 3). But, having said that, a full unit of LFs with 5 HBs is only 115 points.

dietrich wrote:9 hits. 6 wounds. 1 dead terminator. Not exactly awe-inspiring. Even against orks, it's only 6 dead orks (assuming no cover, with cover, it's only 3). But, having said that, a full unit of LFs with 5 HBs is only 115 points.

Exactly, not that Missile Launchers aren't a valid choice, but the all HB squad has a delicious price tag for low point games.

In my army lists it replaces the HB/AC predator as its slightly tougher and has better firepower. Well worth the extra 30 points to me

Jack

warboss wrote:i take them and a heavy bolter armed long fang simply for ablative wounds. the heavy bolter goes first and then the sergeant. the two lascannons magically always survive until the end.

BS! My squad leader is always the last to die...no matter how many wounds I allocate to him

wyomingfox wrote:

warboss wrote:i take them and a heavy bolter armed long fang simply for ablative wounds. the heavy bolter goes first and then the sergeant. the two lascannons magically always survive until the end.

BS! My squad leader is always the last to die...no matter how many wounds I allocate to him

Wow, you're lucky. Almost every time I allocate a wound to one of my Sergs without a Invuln, he just keels over.

c0un7_z3r0 wrote:But if you read the text as it is you could also say that since the author makes a differece between Long Fangs and the Squad Leader only to tell that though being a Long Fang he does not have to take a HW he sort of implies that the Squad Leader as far as the text is concerned still is a Long Fang thus being able to take a HW.

If the only reference to taking heavy weapons is the one that you've provided, then this logic doesn't work.

In order to be able to take a heavy weapon he needs a rule that specifically allows him to take one, not just one that says he doesn't have to.

Its already stated that the squad consists of a Squad Leader and 1-5 Long Fangs, so they are already clearly devided. This makes the "apart from the Squad Leader" statement unnecessary unless the Squad Leader in this case (in the view of the author) counts as any other Long Fang (exept for his special rules, specialized equipment and the ability to choose whether or not to be equipped with a HW)...

I suspect that you'll find that GW don't share the commonly held belief around here that squad leaders or upgrades aren't the same thing as the rest of their squad. The distinction is there because in GW parlance the unit is a unit of Long Fangs, which consists of a number of Long Fangs and a Squad Leader. As a part of the unit the Squad Leader is still a Long Fang (as in, part of the unit named 'Long Fangs')... he's just not a Long Fang (as in the basic unit trooper).

It's sloppy writing, but works if you don't think about it too hard.

Because, of course, it falls down elsewhere... any unit able to take a 'Land Raider' as a transport, for example, would also by extension be able to take a Redeemer or Crusader, since they're also Land Raiders.

Eternal Newb wrote:

wyomingfox wrote:

warboss wrote:i take them and a heavy bolter armed long fang simply for ablative wounds. the heavy bolter goes first and then the sergeant. the two lascannons magically always survive until the end.

BS! My squad leader is always the last to die...no matter how many wounds I allocate to him

Wow, you're lucky. Almost every time I allocate a wound to one of my Sergs without a Invuln, he just keels over.

Him making his save usually means that I won't make a save on ML bearing LF .



Cheaky Git