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A question came up in which a squad of demonettes assaulted a GH squad. The GH squad counter attacked. The demonettes have defensive grenades.

Counter Attack gives you the +1 Assault Bonus "as if" you assaulted

Now:

Enemy units "that assault" a unit with defensive grenades do not get the +1 assault bones for charging

In a similar relation

Ragnar grants furious charge and 1d3 attacks (replaces normal +1 bonus for charging) when he assualts

Defensive Grenades and Ragnars special abilities are only activated when a unit "assaults" or is "assaulted".

So does the Counter Attack count as an "Assault"? We ruled no because the specific language "counts as" or "is" was not used in defining Counter Attack. The INAT FAQ also ruled no for this very reason indicating that clarification was needed.

I would agree with how you play it. As it does not mention that it "counts as " then it doesn't. If it helps blood claws (i think, i dont play SW) have 2 attacks on the charge but only get one for counter attack

The only thing Counter Attack does is permit the defending unit to get +1A like it assaulted. No other rules/powers are activated, so no Defensive grenades for the Attacking squad and no Furious Charge for the Defending squad. Just like Fleet does not permit assaulting after deep strike, even if you can run.

Homer

Shas'O Dorian wrote:I would agree with how you play it. As it does not mention that it "counts as " then it doesn't. If it helps blood claws (i think, i dont play SW) have 2 attacks on the charge but only get one for counter attack

You are very correct. The language specifically states BC only get +1 on the counter charge.

Nope, only benefit is +1 attack. Nothing else.

wyomingfox wrote:

Shas'O Dorian wrote:I would agree with how you play it. As it does not mention that it "counts as " then it doesn't. If it helps blood claws (i think, i dont play SW) have 2 attacks on the charge but only get one for counter attack

You are very correct. The language specifically states BC only get +1 on the counter charge.

It says it is because "No one is that fast!". Meaning two swings for a reactionary ability is a bit much.

However my FLGS has been allowing Furious Assault to trigger off of Counter Attack for awhile now with that IG unit upgrade guy that gives those abilities to the unit. They have been taking "as if" to mean "exactly as if", and as such it would cause it to trigger assault based things such as Furious Assault. Same goes for defensive grenades when you counter attack someone with them, they are playing it as no +1 attack. Now with Ragnar I have the ability to do this and I still do not agree that it should work that way.

Best thing I could come up with to monkey wrench their call on it was to bring up assaults in cover. If someone is assaulting my GH in cover and I counter then we now have two units assaulting each other in cover right? What happens with initiatives there given the other unit did not have frag grenades?

I am certain it was meant to work as everyone is saying, but it could have simply been worded "models with this ability receive +1 attack when assaulted with passed leadership test"