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Ok so this is a topic discussed many a timebefore and I feel should still be discussed. Many have questioned A: what was so bad that the imperium wont even list these two missing legions, and B: who are they?. Obviously these two did something farrrr worse then the traitors but compared to them what happened?

It's commonly believed that the legion Of the Damned(formerly the Phoenix Legion) is one of these such lost legions? I want to hear your opions fellow dakkites.

Empchild wrote:Ok so this is a topic discussed many a timebefore and I feel should still be discussed. Many have questioned A: what was so bad that the imperium wont even list these two missing legions, and B: who are they?. Obviously these two did something farrrr worse then the traitors but compared to them what happened?

It's commonly believed that the legion Of the Damned(formerly the Phoenix Legion) is one of these such lost legions? I want to hear your opions fellow dakkites.

You're right on all counts!

And, it is a good question.: WHAT could they have done?

All of the Traitor Legions were, well, traitors!

And I mean, the Emperor's Children were running around on Earth turning people into recreational drugs, and yet they are still 'remembered'!

So clearly, what they did was something worse than betrayal of the Emperor and the entire human race...

What exactly WOULD that be?

(Other than GW painting themselves into a corner, of course!)

Alpharius wrote:

What exactly WOULD that be?

(Other than GW painting themselves into a corner, of course!)

lol I like that. It is a far question truely because through the genocide and everything and the whole killing the emporer thing all are still listed. Even in my wildest imaginations I cant come to any short of conclusion to this. Maybe sorcery turned them into mutants or something. Maybe they were destroyed in the unifacation wars I mean who really knows. And though story sense what ticked the emporer off cause story wise he was created by shamans in the B.C era. I would figure living for pretty damn much ever you would be akin to all trangressions set by people. Maybe the custodes was one of these chapters and Valentine was the biological son of the emporer I mean who truely knows.

No the fire hawks are the legion of the damned check the lexicanum.

Empchild wrote:Ok so this is a topic discussed many a timebefore and I feel should still be discussed. Many have questioned A: what was so bad that the imperium wont even list these two missing legions, and B: who are they?. Obviously these two did something farrrr worse then the traitors but compared to them what happened?

It's commonly believed that the legion Of the Damned(formerly the Phoenix Legion) is one of these such lost legions? I want to hear your opions fellow dakkites.

These two chapters are never listed because according to GW it is left to you to write your own chapter in. Making up the story is what is left for us to do.

Also I'm not sure if they count the Grey Knights as one of the Space Marine Chapters. Even though they are technically a chapter they are technically not part of the Inquisition - just permanently attached to it. Why they are not known is because they are such a secret.

rogueeyes wrote:

Empchild wrote:Ok so this is a topic discussed many a timebefore and I feel should still be discussed. Many have questioned A: what was so bad that the imperium wont even list these two missing legions, and B: who are they?. Obviously these two did something farrrr worse then the traitors but compared to them what happened?

It's commonly believed that the legion Of the Damned(formerly the Phoenix Legion) is one of these such lost legions? I want to hear your opions fellow dakkites.

These two chapters are never listed because according to GW it is left to you to write your own chapter in. Making up the story is what is left for us to do.

Also I'm not sure if they count the Grey Knights as one of the Space Marine Chapters. Even though they are technically a chapter they are technically not part of the Inquisition - just permanently attached to it. Why they are not known is because they are such a secret.

Those 20 names are not Chapters, but Legions

They're the big, bad daddies to all the Chapters that were created thereafter. The Grey Knights are -not- one of the original 20 Legions.

I believe the LotD would be in the count of the missing 2 under whatever their previous moniker was.

In 'Mechanicum' Dorn mentions something about the two missing legions and some guy said "They are lost to us now"

I get that gw did it for their little you can make your own legion thing, but fluffwise i would assume that they were wiped out to a man and in order to keep the myth of astartes being the emporers immortal angels of death alive the records of them being wiped out was erased to stop the blow to moral it would've had to the war effort.

metallifan wrote:

rogueeyes wrote:

Empchild wrote:Ok so this is a topic discussed many a timebefore and I feel should still be discussed. Many have questioned A: what was so bad that the imperium wont even list these two missing legions, and B: who are they?. Obviously these two did something farrrr worse then the traitors but compared to them what happened?

It's commonly believed that the legion Of the Damned(formerly the Phoenix Legion) is one of these such lost legions? I want to hear your opions fellow dakkites.

These two chapters are never listed because according to GW it is left to you to write your own chapter in. Making up the story is what is left for us to do.

Also I'm not sure if they count the Grey Knights as one of the Space Marine Chapters. Even though they are technically a chapter they are technically not part of the Inquisition - just permanently attached to it. Why they are not known is because they are such a secret.

Those 20 names are not Chapters, but Legions

They're the big, bad daddies to all the Chapters that were created thereafter. The Grey Knights are -not- one of the original 20 Legions.

I believe the LotD would be in the count of the missing 2 under whatever their previous moniker was.

Oops my bad. The Post heading said chapters so I got confused.

iamthecougar wrote:I get that gw did it for their little you can make your own legion thing, but fluffwise i would assume that they were wiped out to a man and in order to keep the myth of astartes being the emporers immortal angels of death alive the records of them being wiped out was erased to stop the blow to moral it would've had to the war effort.

Or it could've been data that got corrupted, or some dolt hit the "Delete" key by accident, or they could've been deleted by a high-status commander or lord with a grudge against them, or an enemy spy, or...

We don't know who they were, and why all records were destroyed remains a mystery. But it doesn't necessarily mean that they did something bad. Maybe the bloated beauracracy of the Imperium just hasn't gotten around to restoring the info yet.

Wouldn't be the first time

Nobody knows, and that's the point. We're doing exactly what GW wants right here. They want us to discuss, create, fantasize, and buy more space marines.

Its my feeling that the two 'missing legions' were never actually formed. There have been hints throughout the history of 40k that when the primarchs were scattered by Chaos, something happened to one or two of them.

So, I'm going to assume that either the primarchs were killed when they was scattered, or didn't survive in their new world, or were never found by the Emperor. The marines created for those primarchs would have been absorbed by other legions.

They weren't left empty for people to create their own (although someone could, and many have). GW has always said there are 1000 chapters of marines, so feel free to create your own (chapter).

I appreciate these aspects of the fluff, where it generates discussion and different opinions (like the older dark angel fluff).

Cruentus wrote:
They weren't left empty for people to create their own...

Yes. They were. GW has stated, multiple times, that those Legions were left blank to inspire players to create their own Chapters and fill in the blanks to fit their own backgrounds, instead of forcing them to adhere to the guidelines for Chapters that have been established with the other 18 Legions.

Dude i definitely think that the two primarchs of those two legions got lost, and that the space marines from terra designed after those dudes were just absorbed into other legions, and they just declared the other two 'lost'.

General Fuzzum wrote:Dude i definitely think that the two primarchs of those two legions got lost, and that the space marines from terra designed after those dudes were just absorbed into other legions, and they just declared the other two 'lost'.

hrmm seems a sound theory... any other ideas?

Empchild wrote:

General Fuzzum wrote:Dude i definitely think that the two primarchs of those two legions got lost, and that the space marines from terra designed after those dudes were just absorbed into other legions, and they just declared the other two 'lost'.

hrmm seems a sound theory... any other ideas?

Other`?

Maybe better ideas...

Since rogal dorn thinks about them as legios, its unlikely they got disbanded/joined other legios.

I think the actual Hints point to an unknown fate, thus we cant assume them destroyed or lost forever.
All we got is " cant count on them yet ( back in HH times ) ", doesnt mean much 10k years later.

What we got is :
-lost
-deleted data

so the question is:

-who was powerful enough to erase the data without any pieces left?
-are the legions ( and their primarchs ) only lost to return later?
-are the legions ( and their primarchs ) gone/destroyed?

A primarch knowing them and believing in them as a force to reckon, is a point towards the space marines forming a seperate legion.
The primarchs may or maybe not found. But legions without primarchs were either led by the emperor or joined another legion+P until
they found their own. Unlikely to lose a legion and nobody knows then. Could be the other way around still.
If the legions were sent out alone and got lost, this may lead to a tactical change. The fielding of legions alongside another legion
could stem from this.
I think we need to wait and see if there is another hint in any coming HH book.
Those that are in the knowing ( emperor, dorn, malcador ) wont tell us...... yet...

Everyone knows that Sygmar and Balacore are the missing primarchs. DUH!

Yeah have to agree there just left open so we can all do are own thing, and about the other traitor legions beginning remembered well there not, they only show them together in the roll call for are benefit but in the 40k universe all there records,honors, banners anything that has there name on it or hints at something they did(even there home worlds) were destroyed so no one knows anything good the traitor legions did,only that well they betrayed the emperor . Just thought I'd throw that out there

I remember vaguely an old bit of fluff saying that the WHFB world was a planet in the eye of terror and Sigmar was one of the lost primarchs, but this has since been removed from the fluff.

now this is very vague memories from when i was 13 or something, so it could have been something me and my friends made up, but i like it anyway.

The 'traitor' legions were all loyal to the Emperor to begin with, and only later turned to chaos.

Is it possible that one of the missing primachs was raised in the service of chaos? It would explain why the records were removed, it would likely have been done by the Emperor himself (or at least on his orders) for the aforementioned moral reasons. Not to mention the blow it would be to the other primachs to discover the fate of one of their brothers. After finding this, there would be a good chance that the marines made of that geneseed would find themselves thoroughly checked and sent out elsewhere, most likely into the other legions or even taken along by the Emperor himself. Surely he must have had some warriors with him when doing the initial fighting.

I also wouldn't be surprised to hear that one of them died. Some of the others came close to being killed. It would be another reason for them not to have a statue, and the assumption would be that what happened to one happened to both, so both were thought of as traitors.

To me, the "lost to us forever" implies that at one time there were around, and now for some reason they are not. Though never finding the primarchs, and the marines of those legions getting absorbed into others fits the bill nicely, IMO.

My own dream is that simply put they really are "lost" in the sense that upon traveling to their destination point through the warp they simply failed to ever show up- and so at some point actually will pop out of the warp, ready and willing to forge a new Imperium after the old one has finally succumbed to the end times of being stuck between Chaos and the full onslaught of the Tyranids. (of course, that's what I'd like)

Legion of the Damned is not one of the lost legions. It is what happened to the Flame Falcons chapter that was lost in the warp. Nobody knows what the two lost legions are.

perhaps they, as Carlovonsexron (GREAT NAME BTW)
actualy did get lost in space? perhaps, they went into the warp to get from one place to another when warp travel was still insanely dangerous.

maybe they were snatched up by a giant entity in the warp..... or perhaps! they left the galaxy!!!! maybe they left the galaxy, and were lsot to the imperium! maybe they caused the tyranids to start their exodus!!! OH THE POSSIBILITIES

ok im now drained of conspiracy energy.....

It would be interesting to think that they are stuck in a warp tide. There is fluff to support that a vessel that entered the war millennium ago may reappear, and to them only a more reasonable amount of time has passed. This would explain why not only the Primarchs are missing, but their legions as well.

My line of reasoning being that whenever their legions are concerned, they were also lost, not destroyed of liquidated and redistributed throughout the rest of the legions or simply disbanded.

Another possibility is that they and their legions rebelled for alternative reasons, or became tainted. Knowing the severe secrecy and power around the Emperor and the many programs, machines, and technology He developed before the Heresy, it is quite possible they are all being held in stasis until such a time as they may be reclaimed. Alternatively, they may have been held for examination, or parted out for use in further experiments that required the vast physical and mental powers that Primarchs contained. The Emperor has always seemed like a powerfully rational, but generally neutral ethically. So I would not go so far past Him using His own creations as parts for elaborate machines or studies. Very Grim-Dark.

When the Emperor was giving Magnus a good tongue lashing for pursuing sorcery he told the Red that further dabbling would be cause for his Legion being destroyed and all mention of them being removed for all time. Now, the Emperor "died" before ever being able to give THAT order, but he could have done so two previous times I suppose.