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Playing against an IG player earlier today, we noticed a bit of a problem,
if a Tau player has a positional relay, and a IG player has a Officer of the Fleet, does the Officers -1 to the reserve roll effect the 2+ Positional Relay roll?

The Positional Relay RAW (pg 27 Tau Empires Codex) "... From the second turn onwards, as long as the bearer is on the table at the beginning of the turn in which this device is used, a single unit that is being held in Reserve may be deployed on a D6 roll of a 2+, though no other units in Reserve may be deployed this turn."

I don't have the guard codex, so I cant give you a RAW on that, but there are two options, Either the Positional relay roll is not a reserve roll, and is hence, unaffected by the OOTF, or the PosR is a Reserve roll, and hence, it is an effective 3+ roll.

I don't have the Tau codex in front of me but my gut yells that the Tau roll is unaffected. Sounds like a special rule and not a reserve roll... the exact phrasing of the Positional relay should clear it up.

in my post is the exact wording of the Positional Relay, my feeling about it is that the wording is unclear, (the codex being 4 years old may have something to do with it) the real question is what constitutes a "reserve roll" if it is a roll that allows you to deploy a unit from your reserves onto the table, then i think the PosR is a reserve roll by the RAW, if it is the specific roll you make to determine your reserves, then the PosR would be unaffected, as it makes the tau player make no reserve rolls to get instead the PosR deployment.

I would say that the Tau player still rolls at 2+.

The Officer of the Fleet effects reserve rolls. The positional relay roll may not be considered a reserve roll but an effect of the wargear itself. I think the fleet officer would not have an effect on the wargear's roll.

I'd like to hear some more opinions though. Interesting question. I used to use positional relay when I played Tau.

edit: I just noticed this is my 500th post.

A "roll to come in from reserves" really should be a "reserve roll". Otherwise, we'll have to deal with that annoying Terrorfex debate about whether "a leadership test to avoid being pinned" is a "pinning test" over and over again.

both wargears function normally, IMO.

the officer of the fleet gives the +1 to enemy reserve rolls. the tau needs to roll a 5 to get reserves in (on this turn)

The tau chooses to use the positional relay (brings reserves in on a 2+). The tau doesn't HAVE to use the positional relay, its a wargear effect. The rules do not conflict.

Horst wrote:both wargears function normally, IMO.

the officer of the fleet gives the +1 to enemy reserve rolls. the tau needs to roll a 5 to get reserves in (on this turn)

The tau chooses to use the positional relay (brings reserves in on a 2+). The tau doesn't HAVE to use the positional relay, its a wargear effect. The rules do not conflict.

QFT. Well-played, well played.

It's not like having the positional relay being less effective is a bad thing. Everyone that uses it regularly will realize one of its biggest advantages is the ability to hold squads in reserve.

RaW the Relay doesn't even work any more IIRC, but yeah, it still works on a 2+

Voted A, but not because I agree that "it is not a reserve roll."

The wargear argument is a good one, but the standard "specific overrides less specific" seems to come into play. OoTF forces all enemy reserve rolls to have +1, except when there is another, more specific rule that states the exact number that the Tau player must roll for that specific reserve roll.

I guess I see it like "all vehicles can move up to 6" for combat speed... except orks with red paint get to move up to 7."

Then again, I've been wrong before.

DoW

Gwar! wrote:RaW the Relay doesn't even work any more IIRC, but yeah, it still works on a 2+

Sometimes I swear YMDC is just one big troll on Tau with how much of their rules people break with RAW, either way in this case it's not true. There's no reason for it to not work, the OP posted the rule section of the wargear description in it's entirety.

Guard Codex wrote:Intercept Reserves: Whilst the Officer of the Fleet is alive, your opponent must subtract 1 from all of his reserve rolls. In addition, if any enemy units arrive while using the outflank rule, you may choose to make your opponent re-roll the dice used to determine which board edge these squads arrives from.

The Tau rule allows you to make a single reserves role, which you succeed on a 2+. The OoTF subtracts 1 from your role for your reserves. Thus, you get your 2+, and the IG player gets to subtract 1 from your role. The two rules effect the same part of the game, but do not actually change the other's mechanic... they do they conflict.

More importantly, the poll doesn't have the correct option. The answer is: "2+, as per the Positional Relay, however the reserves roll I make will be reduced by one, as per Intercept Reserves."

Gwar! wrote:RaW the Relay doesn't even work any more IIRC, but yeah, it still works on a 2+

Hmm a google search reveals a similar thread, but with you taking the opposite stance.

Ridcully wrote:

Gwar! wrote:RaW the Relay doesn't even work any more IIRC, but yeah, it still works on a 2+

Hmm a google search reveals a similar thread, but with you taking the opposite stance.

That is what I must have remembered.

I answer so many Questions (gogo Magic Skype Button) I don't remember the actual debates, just what the debates were about. Can you link the thread? I have totally forgotten what the argument for it not working was.

I think you need a third option on the board as it is not as simple as one or the other. After reading the entry for postional relay in the codex (nothing against your post Fizzywig, but I always read the codex for myself), I am apt to say that it is more like Horst describes. as it is not a traditional reserves roll, whereas should the player choose to bring in reserves normally, he would be subject to OotF rules. It will be interesting to see how this plays out on the forums.

Gwar! wrote:

Ridcully wrote:

Gwar! wrote:RaW the Relay doesn't even work any more IIRC, but yeah, it still works on a 2+

Hmm a google search reveals a similar thread, but with you taking the opposite stance.

That is what I must have remembered.

I answer so many Questions (gogo Magic Skype Button) I don't remember the actual debates, just what the debates were about. Can you link the thread? I have totally forgotten what the argument for it not working was.

Depends what you mean by 'not working'. I wasn't referring your attitude to a RAW issue that causes the positional relay not to function at all, but the Officer of Fleet's ability to affect the dice roll. Here you appear to say it effectively still works on a 2+ (unless i've misunderstood you). But in the earlier thread, you believe it's effectively a 3+:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/241335.page

Ah yes, I remember now.

The issue was basically that the rules for reserves also mention deploying the unit, and whether or not Rolling a D6 to deploy a unit from Reserves counts as a Reserves roll.

Now that you remind me, I am not 100% sure on this.

I'm going to hang my hat with the Positional Relay working on the 2+. It seems that it's a special kind of deployment, not necessarily a Reserves deployment. So, as I see it, the Officer of the Fleet doesn't effect the roll.

I think that it's a special roll that is allowed by the PosRelay. I'm not sure of the Imperial Guard Codex and the wording behind it so I can't make a decision based on jsut the Tau wording. The Tau wargear seems to replace the reserves roll however but at the same time allows a single roll for one unit which is a reserves roll.

I drive myself in circles. Time to look at an IG codex.

solkan wrote:A "roll to come in from reserves" really should be a "reserve roll". Otherwise, we'll have to deal with that annoying Terrorfex debate about whether "a leadership test to avoid being pinned" is a "pinning test" over and over again.

QFT. Can someone explain why the ruling should not be consistant?