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I am away from home so I dont have my BRB and this is bugging me. Can you choose to shoot a facing you are not in? Key word is choose.

Ex, a punisher cant hurt a chimera in the front so it chooses to fire at the side and give the cover save.

I dont have the BRB with me either, but my understandign was that you choose to fire at a vehicle and that shot hits the facing you are in. you cannot choose to fire at the sie if you are in the front.

I may not have the BRB to site this but I'm pretty sure this is the rule, if its not, heck, ill always be firing at the rear facing of your vehicles with my firewarriors, sure, take the cover save.

No, you may not.

If you are at an angle where you have LOS to either the front or the side, you can choose to shoot at either. If the side you are shooting at is obscured it would get a cover save.

There are probably many instances when you will be able to draw LOS to two sides of a vehicle.

The fact that two sides a vehicle are visible has no bearing on which side of the vehicle is hit. You shoot at the vehicle. Which facing is hit is determined by the arc in which the firing model is positioned. If the firing model can't see the side corresponding to the arc it's in, then the shot hits the visible side with a 3+ cover save. You may notice the lack of any choices or options in the preceding process. (Pages 60 and 62 of the rulebook).

I suppose that if a model were positioned exactly between to arcs, you could either choose which facing to hit or flip a coin or something, but that's the only situation where there would even be the chance for a choice.

If you can't determine which facing you are "in" (and that is a highly theoretical "almost-never-happens-in-real-games-kind-of-situation"), I would just ask you to randomise.

There is no choice involved in the regular rules concerning facing. Why inject the option of a choice in the houserules needed to keep the game moving?

The rules for obscured facing are pretty clear - "It may rarely happen that the firing unit cannot see any part of the facing they are in, but they can still see another facing of the target vehicle. In this case they may take the shot against the facing they can see, but to represent such an extremely angled shot, the vehicle receives a 3+ cover save." p62

There is no choice involved - the angle shot is only an option in the circumstance given above.

This is one of those things that catches a lot of people out in my experience.

As such, a Handy Diagram!

The Red Lines indicate Shots that will give a 3+ Cover Save, even if the pink vehicle is in the open.
The Green Lines indicate Shots that will give no Cover save.

I understand the diagram and what it means all along, but what I mean is CAN those blue squares fire RED lines of sight if it CAN see vie the green line.

I can now see the arguement that if you cant tell which facing you are in, but in that case I would roll off.

This person was in the front arc handidly and shooting at side armor because he couldnt hurt the front.

GMMStudios wrote:I understand the diagram and what it means all along, but what I mean is CAN those blue squares fire RED lines of sight if it CAN see vie the green line.

Oh, I see what you mean.

Yes, you can choose to so so just fine. Just remember they have the 3+ Cover save

Can you site a rule quote that allows it?

I just can't find anything that says you can. As another poster has said, all I see is that you pick a target and shoot the facing you are in.

GMMStudios wrote:Can you site a rule quote that allows it?

I just can't find anything that says you can. As another poster has said, all I see is that you pick a target and shoot the facing you are in.

This is why I need my coffee. I misread what you posted

You can choose to shoot the red line, but ONLY if you cannot see the facing you are in. For example, it is behind a wall or something, you can see the side armour poking out but the front is completely hidden.

haha it's fine, I assumed that is what happened

Thanks!

Some creative LOS blocking with your own armour might let you take those shots though.

Can anyone quote a rule and page in BRB where the red line shots are even valid?

Common sense says if front/side is completely covered you may have arguement to shoot at side, but...

Old Man Ultramarine wrote:Can anyone quote a rule and page in BRB where the red line shots are even valid?

Common sense says if front/side is completely covered you may have arguement to shoot at side, but...

Scott-S6 wrote:The rules for obscured facing are pretty clear - "It may rarely happen that the firing unit cannot see any part of the facing they are in, but they can still see another facing of the target vehicle. In this case they may take the shot against the facing they can see, but to represent such an extremely angled shot, the vehicle receives a 3+ cover save." p62

There is no choice involved - the angle shot is only an option in the circumstance given above.

BOOM-SHAKA-LAKA

One thing to remember about determining facing that I regularly see catching people is that the quadrants are not automatically equally sized.

They are in Gwar's diagram only because the vehicle depicted is a perfect square. To determine facing, you draw a line from corner to corner. That means long vehicles have much narrower facings on the front and rear.

The picture of a vehicles armour facing divisions on page 60 of the rulebook even clearly shows that the quadrants aren't equal, it goes by the shape of the vehicle. I see many people checking facings by placing an X in the center and dividing it equally for some reason though.

Agree with Kaaihn.

Also keep in mind that on some vehicles the facings are hard to pinpoint as it can be difficult to determine "corners". Falcons and Devilfishes springs to mind.

devilfish arent that hard to determine corners, you go from one edge of the gun drone mount to the corner of the engine block. its got a WIIIIIDE front/rear arc. one of the reasons its worth it to spend almost/over 100 points on a transport.

Damn, for a second there I thought everyone had gone mad/lost their rulebooks. Glad to see Gwar! come to his senses. lol

Nurgleboy77 wrote:Damn, for a second there I thought everyone had gone mad/lost their rulebooks. Glad to see Gwar! come to his senses. lol

NO U!



And yes, I know about the corner to corner thing

GMMStudios wrote:Can you site a rule quote that allows it?
I just can't find anything that says you can. As another poster has said, all I see is that you pick a target and shoot the facing you are in.

If the firing model can't see the side corresponding to the arc it's in, then the shot hits the visible side with a 3+ cover save.

This leaves no room for CHOICE, either the condition is met or it isn't, you have nothing to choose during this process.

Yet another diagram. Hope it helps.

Iron_Chaos_Brute wrote:No, you may not.

+1 Pretty much sums it up.