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So I've just started playing this fine game and went with Orks as my initial army. After my first real game against a friend of mine who plays Eldar, I am left with a few questions:

1) Regarding Old Zogwort - if he (or any weird boy) has been attached to a 30 ork mob, is his psychic leadership test thingy at <= 31? Would this remain the same even when Eldrad is forcing 3d6 (or so I was told he had something like that)? Does Zogwort need to pass this test to use his squig curse? Does his nest of vipers still provide d6 attacks against a vehicle (as normal strength attacks since poison is useless)?

2) What do I do about an Eldar army full of wraith guard, fire dragons in vehicles, and Eldrad?

3) Is it a good idea to put Grotsnik in a Kommando group with Snikrot and also pay the points to bump up both the Kommandos and a Loota squad or two with Cybork? Lets say I have 1500 points against the above mentioned army.

4) When firing at a vehicle, does an AP- weapon's penality and the glancing blow penalty combine making it -3 on the damage chart? Does a total less than 1 mean no damage or is it always a minimum of Crew Shaken?

5) Double check me here:
A) A Boy when charging gets 2 + 1 slugga/choppa + 1 charging = 4 attacks.
B) A Shoota Boy gets 2 + 1 charging = 3 attacks.
C) A Nob with slugga/choppa or big choppa or PK and charging gets 3 + 1 weapon + 1 charging = 5 attacks.
D) A Nob with a shoota gets 3 + 1 charging = 4 attacks.
E) A Painboy gets 3 + 1 syringe + 1 charging = 5 attacks.
F) A Painboy against a vehicle - the syringe doesn't count so he only gets 3 + 1 charging = 4 attacks.
G) A Nob with a big choppa can insta-kill a T3 enemy (or is that only with shooting someone?)

6) Is it good that my deffdred with 4x ccws was immobilized by a group of warp spiders that stood behind it for four turns blowing off limbs until it was as armless as the Black Knight? Is that ok even though I only got to move him once and never got to attack with him?


I'll also take general suggestions of Ork vs Eldar tactics and suggestions if anyone has some to offer. Thanks!

Paradoxic wrote:So I've just started playing this fine game and went with Orks as my initial army. After my first real game against a friend of mine who plays Eldar, I am left with a few questions:

1) Regarding Old Zogwort - if he (or any weird boy) has been attached to a 30 ork mob, is his psychic leadership test thingy at <= 31? Would this remain the same even when Eldrad is forcing 3d6 (or so I was told he had something like that)? Does Zogwort need to pass this test to use his squig curse? Does his nest of vipers still provide d6 attacks against a vehicle (as normal strength attacks since poison is useless)?

2) What do I do about an Eldar army full of wraith guard, fire dragons in vehicles, and Eldrad?

3) Is it a good idea to put Grotsnik in a Kommando group with Snikrot and also pay the points to bump up both the Kommandos and a Loota squad or two with Cybork? Lets say I have 1500 points against the above mentioned army.

4) When firing at a vehicle, does an AP- weapon's penality and the glancing blow penalty combine making it -3 on the damage chart? Does a total less than 1 mean no damage or is it always a minimum of Crew Shaken?

5) Double check me here:
A) A Boy when charging gets 2 + 1 slugga/choppa + 1 charging = 4 attacks.
B) A Shoota Boy gets 2 + 1 charging = 3 attacks.
C) A Nob with slugga/choppa or big choppa or PK and charging gets 3 + 1 weapon + 1 charging = 5 attacks.
D) A Nob with a shoota gets 3 + 1 charging = 4 attacks.
E) A Painboy gets 3 + 1 syringe + 1 charging = 5 attacks.
F) A Painboy against a vehicle - the syringe doesn't count so he only gets 3 + 1 charging = 4 attacks.
G) A Nob with a big choppa can insta-kill a T3 enemy (or is that only with shooting someone?)

6) Is it good that my deffdred with 4x ccws was immobilized by a group of warp spiders that stood behind it for four turns blowing off limbs until it was as armless as the Black Knight? Is that ok even though I only got to move him once and never got to attack with him?


I'll also take general suggestions of Ork vs Eldar tactics and suggestions if anyone has some to offer. Thanks!

I can't speak much to Ork tactics, but:

1. Leadership with mob rule is equal to number of Orks, although psychic powers can be weird on how they interact with special rules. you'll still have to roll your psychic test for perils of the warp. I believe it would give you extra attacks, yes.

2. I'll leave this one for experienced Ork Players

3. I believe if you put Grotsnik in a Kommando group they lose their infiltrate (and thus outflank) option, so I'd go with no. In general, sticking Grotsnik in a max sized squad of Boyz is pretty much regarded as the best use.

4. Probably, AP 1 and open top combine for a +2 on the chart. the minimum result is a 1, regardless of penalties.

5.
A) Yes
B) Yes
C) No, big choppa is 2 handed, and power claws don't get bonus attacks for an extra CC weapon.
D) Yes
E) No, the syringe is his weapon, he gets 3, +1 on the charge, they all wound on 4+
F) Same number of attacks, but he doesn't benefit from poison
G) Yes. Strength is twice the value of three, so he would insta-kill T3 barring any special rules like eternal warrior.

6) I wouldn't call that good. I believe in general Orks are already heavy on assault power, and tend to use their walkers to take anti-armor weapons.

1) I'm a bit fuzzy about psyker rules. You might want to ask those questions over on YMDC.
2) Again, don't have the Eldar book, and never faught them. I'll give some general advice on orks strengths/weaknesses later.
3) I never fielded Grotsnik or Kommandos. It is a bit weak for their points, but I don't see any glarring problems. Try it out, if it dosn't work, change.
4) All modifiers to the damage table apply, so AP - and glancing stack. Don't forget opened top on our vehicles that don't have 'ard top will add to the damage roll.

5) I'm going to list for you the normal number of attacks and then the number of attacks while charging (attackers first round of assault) (ie: 3/4)
A) 3/4
B) 2/3
C) Nob with choppa/slugga 4/5
all other nob weapon combination 3/4
(*You only get an extra attack for having 2 single handed CC weapons, pistols count as a single handed CC weapon in CC. Big choppas are 2 handed. PK is a special weapon with special rules in the BRB that says you only get an extra CC attack if you have 2 PK)
D) 3/4
E) 3/4
(Painboys have only one CC weapon, the 'urty syringe, so no bonus for having 2 single handed CC weapons.)
F) 3/4
(You get your normal number of attacks, but poisened has no affect of vehicles.)
G) Yes, an unsaved wound from a big choppa will cause instant death to a T3

6) It's never a 'good' thing when your vehicle get torn to shreds. It happens. A Land Raider can get blown to peices first round of shooting. Armour on vehicles only gives them a better chance of not getting wasted. I've found it's a good idea to feal dispasionate about lossing units. You're goal is to kill the enemy army, their goal is to kill yours. Orks are cheaper pound for pound than other armies, but our units are a lot easier to destroy. If he is destroying your vehicles with warp spiders, find a way to kill the warp spiders.

Ok, general tips for playing orks gooder!
Dakka da Chopy stuff, Chop the Dakka'y stuff. Translation. Shoot the assault specilty units, assault the shooting units. See a big tank, hit it with a PK. See a unit of assault terminators, shoot them.
Our strength is in the number of attacks, if you loss this advantage, you are lossing. 2 tanks are 4 times as powerfull as 1 tank (as an example). It's always good to take 2 or more of something, or have cooperating units. 1 trukk by itself is just going to get blown to pieces, 3 or 4 and you have good start to an assault force.
Kans have good BS, but bad WS, they are great at ranged and attacking non walker vehicles
Deff Dredds have good WS but bad BS, flamers are good because poor BS dosn't matter. Still good at tearing apart vehicles, but can usually handle walkers also.
Always consider leadership. Don't take nobz unless they have an HQ to baby sit. For deffcoptas, either take 1 or 4+.
We have some of the fastest assault units in the game. Trukks can move 12 (13 with RPJ) + 2" desembark + 1D6 run (if WAAAGH! called) + 6" assault. Thats a possible 22-27" assault range. Storm boys are also fun with 12 + 1D6 + 6" assault. They don't have WAAAGH!, but you can save that for your ground troops who will soon catch up.
I also want to advocate grot mobs. They are rediculasly cheap, and can hold objectives. They are a great speed bump. And the greatest part is that if they are ignored, they do their job well, and if they are attacked, than the opponent is wasting his resorces. So what if they get slaughtered, if you tie up 300+ points of resource for one turn, they have wasted a lot of thier potential on basicly nothing. It can then give your more powerfull orks time to get set up.

1) The official FAQ on GW's site says that a weirdboy's leadership is affected by mob rule, but can still never go above 10.

I'm not sure a AP- would put -1 on the damage chart, i haven't read that rule anywhere. I thought the only ap modifier to vehicle damage charts was ap 1 weaps giving you +1? then again i/my friend haven't smacked a vehicle with a ap- weap so that might explain it.

AP - does indeed apply a -1, it's in the section on vehicle damage.

Paradoxic wrote:
2) What do I do about an Eldar army full of wraith guard, fire dragons in vehicles, and Eldrad?

3) Is it a good idea to put Grotsnik in a Kommando group with Snikrot and also pay the points to bump up both the Kommandos and a Loota squad or two with Cybork? Lets say I have 1500 points against the above mentioned army.

46) Is it good that my deffdred with 4x ccws was immobilized by a group of warp spiders that stood behind it for four turns blowing off limbs until it was as armless as the Black Knight? Is that ok even though I only got to move him once and never got to attack with him?

I'll also take general suggestions of Ork vs Eldar tactics and suggestions if anyone has some to offer. Thanks!

2) Laugh at the eldar player... (If thats all he's taking it should be easy as Wraithguard as your only troops isn't that good).

Orks win through the numbers game, they individually are weak but compensate by having so many attacks it usually doesn't matter how many get into combat.

The hardest part of any Ork plan is taking out numerous transports as we lack sufficient ranged anti-tank plus we don't have melta. To beat his vehicles you need PK's, Kans and Dreads - Eldar vehicles only have AV 10 rear so your going to have a good chance of blowing them up. However if your opponent knows how to use his vehicles you may never catch them, but if you do its over.

Wraithguard are good for holding an objective but with enough boys they will fall in CC. Your opponent is paying something close to 400 points for 1 troops choice. You can get 2 full boyz sqauds for that. Fire Dragons are also weak to CC, yes they will strike first but you have so many attacks it shouldn't matter if a few boyz die. Get Eldrad into CC as well.

3) I usually put the Mad Doc with 'Ard boyz or regular boyz in a battle wagon. Sinkrot is a good tatic to force things to move closer to the rest of your orks however if he doesn't get stuck in he will get shot to pieces. Which could be benifical or it may not, just depends. I would not invest in Cybork for either group - Kommandos because they won't last and Lootas shoudl be in cover.

46) Thats just bad luck, your dreads build is fine, just have him running toward whatever he's going to rip open.

Is there anything else in his army besides Wraithguard, Fire Dragons, WS and Eldrad? IF you could let us know what you have to use I can be more helpful.

Thanks for the responses guys. The game isn't really that bad for most things - just a bit iffy on very specific intersections of various general rules.

7) Can I take a Trukk to hold Lootas instead of the Boyz it 'comes with'? I'm going to lean towards no given the wording of dedicated transport. I was thinking of putting them in a looted transport, dropping them off in cover, and then running around doing tank shocks and shooting rocks at whatever I can get near (such as flame dragons, eldrad, other tanks, etc)

8) A follow-on clarification question to #4. If an AP- weapon fires against a deff dread's rear armor, AV 10, and scores a glancing blow and rolls a 6 on the penetration roll... is that weapon destroyed or immobilized?

8A) If a vehicle is immobilized and it gets the immobilized result again, does it lose a weapon or become a smoking wreck?

This first game involved an army that started with 5 rangers on the board. Everything else had outflank or infiltrate. As luck had it, I went first (bad choice for me) and ended up positioning my shootas against an edge and my CC boyz in the center. On my second turn, my Kommandos (with my warboss as per Snikrot's special ambush ability) showed up with nothing to do so I dropped them off on the wrong side. So he just walked into the Shoota side of the board with everything he had except the warpspiders which used deep strike to land behind my deffdread I left, stupidly, with his back just open to being shot. Luckily I had a great waaaagh and was able to get the Shootas in CC with guardians and my Nobz in with Scorpians (which didn't get an assault against the shootas because of careful casualty choices). I won only because he had problems with distance judgment and I got lucky with some CC (such as sweeping advances against the guardians).

This next game he was talking about a Wraithguard based army with a whole lot of 3+ saves and Fortune and Doom and other things from Eldrad plus several units in tanks. I'm concerned because my Shoota Boyz are not going to do so well against the mek or high save options (especially when combined with the Eldrad powers).

7) you can, but they can't start the game in the trukk, only the unit that purchased the dedicated transport can. But most of the time you can get them into cover fairly easily with deployment, not a big deal.

8) AP-, glancing, 6 = ((6-1)-2)=3, weapon destroyed.

8a) Moves to weapon destroyed if any weapons remain, wrecked otherwise.

The only way for Orks to beat those puny Wraithguard is to get as many Powerklaws into assault with them as possible. As a long time Wraithguard player, belive me I know. Then they will fall, as they do not have an invulnerable save. A Nobz mob in Battlewagon/trukk would be preferable, but regular Boyz Mobs could do as well.

Our best wepon against Eldar skimmers is Lootas. Massed S7 Fire will take those transports down, and when they are down, you jump whatever comes out of 'em in close combat with your boyz.

Now correct me if I´m wrong, but I don´t think that you can use Snikrots special "I can come in wherever I want" rule if an Independent Character is joined to the squad.

Oh, and I would stay away from Weirdboyz when facing Eldar if I were you. Runes of Warding mess them up alot, even when in decent size mobs, and they aren´t that great to start with. A Mek with KFF is always nice though.

There, hope that helps

Snikrot has a special rule called 'AMBUSH' which gives the ability for the entire unit to enter from any table edge. If an independent unit is joined to Snikrot and his kommandos, he is part of the unit. People start getting irratated when Wazzdakka or a Warboss on Bike joins. Raw, it's legal, but it really ticks off some people.

Lootas are amazing. period.

You can buy a boyz mob with a trukk, and start the game with them dissembarked. Lootas also have to start disembarked of course, but can embark on their first movement phase. I would siggest a BW or Looted Wagon first though.

Again, mobs of boys are great. Remember to support them them though. Find ways to give them cover saves. Ork Walkers and mobs of boys work together well also. What scares other armies about orks is when they have to many things to deak with at once, then you over whelm them with the sheer number of attacks.

you may want to brief yourself on the rule book, your codex, and the erratas on GW's website but...for starters weirdboys leadership for the purpose of psychic tests is NEVER more than 10 due to mob rule (gw errata)

To beat that incredibly stupid list your friend is building you should definitely field as many psychers as you possibly can because the runes of warding can't possibly work against your weirdboys (willow560 is not responsible for any disagreements that may occur during your game with your eldar friend).

I'm kidding. By the way, that was a really good game we had together and I really do need to learn to estimate distances better. And I'm not sure if that is exactly the list I'll bring next time we play, so it may not be a great idea to specifically tailor to that theme.

I thought your name looked familiar...

I'm not specifically tailoring the list to what you spoke of, however I was interested in what people would suggest against such units. Obviously what I did field against your eldar was wrong (for example: the kommandos against an all infiltrating army) and I was hoping for better theories for confronting Eldar in general and some of your more specifically indicated options.

Unfortunately, no one really offered much tactic suggestions against Eldrad or, really, any eldar units (best advice was jayjester's up above). I guess I'll just have to learn as I go.

Paradoxic wrote:

2) What do I do about an Eldar army full of wraith guard, fire dragons in vehicles, and Eldrad?

If you go into hand-to-hand combat with wraithguard and your unit has a lot of power klaws, you will kill them pretty easily--wounding on 2's and they get no saves. So that means nob units can take out wraithguard in close combad. But try to avoid getting caught in an extended HtH with wraithguard where you have no power klaws because, after the charge with str3, orks need 6s to wound wraithguard and they get their 3+ save so you'll be there forever.

Shoot down the fire dragon's vehicles with units of 15 lootas. In fact, shoot down all Eldar grav tanks with lootas. Then you can shoot or HtH the dragons when they jump out (they're very weak on defense, anything you have will kill them).

Try to ignore Eldrad and win the game without killing him because he's insanely hard to kill. But if you can hit him with attacks that are str8+ (klaws, rokkits) and he fails his 3+ invulnerable save (he usually has to fail it twice because of fortune power) then he dies instantly.