SoB and GKGM Question

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**Gornall**

Had this issue come up over the weekend. If I'm using SoB and a GKGM together, does the SoB special rules prevent the GKGM NFW from working?

**Gwar!**

No, Shield of Faith only works against Psychic powers directed at the Sisters.

**Gornall**

Are you sure? The argument was that the line "Force weapons lose their ability to kill their target outright, simply count them as power weapons.", doesn't specify a target or even a side.

**Gwar!**

Shield of Faith applies ONLY to the Sisters. No other unit has that Rule or is affected by it. Only Force Weapons attacking Sisters lose their power.

Please note the page title. It does not say "Special Rule Free for All". It says "Sisters of Battle Special Rules". They are Special rules for the Sisters of Battle. Nowhere does the rule say "ALL FORCE WEAPONS EVERYWHERE STOP WORKING HURRR!"

No, it says "they lose the ability to kill their target outright". Is your GKGM attacking your friendly Sisters? If not, why would the Sisters rules affect him?

**kirsanth**

Even reading the codex I am still lost where that would come from.

Regardless, without a target how would a rule that hinders SoB from being targeted apply?

**Gornall**

While I personally agree, that doesn't seem to be what it says in the Codex. It simply says that force weapons don't work, period. I would like to be able to use my GKGM with SoB, so what is the best way to counter that train of thought?

**gaylord500**

That part of Shield of Faith is played that it only works against force weapons used against Sisters. Otherwise, why would the WH codex bother with force weapons as an equipment option?

It's an old codex and some parts require interpretation. If you wanted to be overly specific about it, that sentence would only work on the old force weapons, not the new force weapons (because the new ones don't kill outright, they "only" cause Instant Death). Edit: If you wanted to counter that thinking, I'd argue that the sentence by itself also doesn't say that any Sisters of Battle unit has to be on the board for that effect to happen, either. All it says is that force weapons don't do it anymore in any game that's played, ever. Didn't you know? :-)

**Gwar!**

Gornall wrote:that doesn't seem to be what it says in the Codex.

Well, you are wrong, plain and simple. I pointed out the rules. If you choose to ignore them, bully for you.

**Gornall**

Gwar! wrote:
Gornall wrote:that doesn't seem to be what it says in the Codex.
Well, you are wrong, plain and simple. I pointed out the rules. If you choose to ignore them, bully for you.

I'm not trying to be hostile or argumentative. I just want to have the most ironclad argument possible for when I try to use my GKGM with SoBs again. I thought it nerfed FWs being used against SoB, too, (and this is the interpretation I prefer as it makes the most sense), but the other party argued that the rule doesn't include that "being used against SoBs" clause, so it actually nerfs all of them on that table. Is the "being used against SoB" clause implied by the nature of the special rules? That would allow me to make my argument to keep the NFW working.

As for the FW option in the codex, the person's argument was that it was for if you had a radical SoB force (why the heck would someone do that?). And the rule says to count them as power weapons. If it wasn't for that, then yeah, at least I could say it only broke the old force weapons.

Once again, I agree with what you're saying, but I need the best line of reasoning possible to show why it works that way.

**kirsanth**

Yaaaay, I thought I missed something.

^^

This looks like a fun one. Sort of nonsensical, but fun, nonetheless.

**gaylord500**

That's all there is on the force weapon thing in the WH Codex, though - that one sentence. And pretty much all WH players play it the sensible way.

An argument against it is to look at the army the other side is using, and bring up the other questionable interpretations from that codex. The best is not to bother, though, or rely on the tournament organizer (if there is one) to make the ruling.

Or, if you like, it's sort of a version of the FAQ ruling re: teleport homers. You can't gain the benefit of an opponent's special rules or wargear unless specified. If the opposing army doesn't have Sisters (or the case of a force allied to Sisters), why would it get a Sister ability? While by itself it may appear to have wide application, it doesn't specify that it applies to all units or enemy units - just to targets. As force weapon as power weapon is listed under Shield of Faith, it's linked to it. So, as it doesn't specify broadly, by the general rules FAQ, it applies narrowly - to targets with Shield of Faith.

**Gornall**

gaylord500 wrote:That's all there is on the force weapon thing in the WH Codex, though - that one sentence. And pretty much all WH players play it the sensible way.

I agree it's the "sensible" way. However, my opponent could argue that it's "sensible" to say that the NFW causes Instant Death. I'm trying to have my cake and eat it, too.

**Mannahnin**

Given the mentality that you’re describing, I think your best argument is the one about Force Weapons being an option in the WH book.

Gornall wrote:As for the FW option in the codex, the person's argument was that it was for if you had a radical SoB force (why the heck would someone do that?). And the rule says to count them as power weapons. If it wasn't for that, then yeah, at least I could say it only broke the old force weapons.

To what “radical” force are they referring? I don’t recall any such thing existing in the WH codex.

**Gornall**

Sorry. I used the term "radical" from the DH Codex, basically a WH army without any SoBs, just ISTs, Inquisitors, etc.

**Mannahnin**

Right. So my point (or your point, as you make the argument) is that SINCE there is no such army list theme described in the WH codex, it makes no sense to argue that the army list is designed to be incompatible with its own wargear.

**Lone Dragoon**

The easiest way I would suggest handling it is point out the Adepta Sororitas rule on every squad of SoB. Then point out the first line of the Shield of Faith rule.

"The Adepta Sororitas represent..."

Only models with the Adepta Sororitas rule gain that benefit, since the first sentence indicates the entire paragraph is intended to affect those models only. If your opponent further tries to argue ask him, if I had no SoB in the army would you still point to that rule? I.e. running only allies as troops, using inquisitors/assassins only etc.

If he says yes, then I wouldn't even bother unpacking the models to play, means already it's not going to be fun IMHO.