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In most units, that aren't speed bumps/sacrificial lambs, how do you equip the nobs? PK and Bosspole are given, but more specificaly, with wound allocation and such, wouldn't it be prudent to give the nob 'eavy armour, to make sure he can survive the stray bullet?? (lost my nobs the last couple of games whilst the boys survived...)

Trukks, are rokkits on 'em worth it or not? since I started playing orks, WAY back, I've allways given the trukk a rokkit instead of a BS, foor sheer annoyance value, but lately, due to me getting more games in this edition, re-learning the rules, and my gaming group getting more competitive, I've been thinking about cutting the rokkits mainly for the few points, and aestetics. I've considered just giving my trukks the ram (represented by trakks...) so I can re-roll the darned dice for when driving through terrain (which I usually do ).

And finally, in most lists lately, I've been using 2 groups, of 2 koptas with TLR, with one having a big bomm and a buzz saw. one unit starting on the board, and the other one outflanking. I've lately considered either removing one unit, and beefing up the remaining to 3 models OR using 'em in one unit (4 TLR koptas, with 2 buzzsaws and 2 bomms), OR just getting 2 more koptas to field 'em in units of three. what I'm basicly asking is: what's the ideal number of koptas in a kopta unit?

Thoughts??

//Calle

Give the nob a power klaw most definately, boss pole depends on how big the unit is. If the unit is 20-30 strong you might not need that boss pole for a few turns, while you take a small unit no doubt it will come in use.

Er, don't allocate wounds to your nob when you have boyz. You pay 5 points for 'eavy armour, while a boy is 6 points. Your paying 5 points to save 6, so a difference of 1 point saved. You really only want to do it once as well, or else last wound and you've lost your nob. I don't think its worth it. Allocate wounds to boyz.

BS2 one shot, no, rokkits on trukks are not worth it. Rokkits are best en mass or twin linked, plus you want to keep trukks cheap as they will go pop no problems.

Two heads are better than one, so two units are better than one. Dethkopters are annoying and cheap and can claim their points back easily. I've never used a big bomm though.

Ookay, this might be me misunderstanding, but here goes:

lets say I have a unit with 6 boys, and a nob left at the start of a second CC phase.

the unit get's slammed by a unit of scorpions, causing 8 wounds. don't I have to allocate atleast one on each model, (including the nob) and then decide where to allocate the excess one (choosing the boys obiously)??

as fer the deffkoptas, so, two units then, but do I keep 'em at 1, 2 or three models/unit?

Bigbomms are ace, a pie plate at those points, to use while you turbo-boost into position to shoot a vehicle in the rear is awsome. (especially if you aim to pass over an enemy infantry unit on the way...) just try not to go overboard on 'em. one per unit is fine, otherwise it becomes a must to bomb. it should be done more casually ie, if you get the opportunity

My reasoning with rokkits on the trukks, has allways been the effort to get 'em en-masse, or, to keep the trukk usefull if it survives delivering its cargo, so it can take potshots at the enemy, or if need be, don't go full speed, but instead shoot it's rokkit at a vehicle (en masse so to speak, with the rokkit carried by the unit onboard, and their friends in the other trukk and their trukks rokkit...), but as you say, they usually get popped, so I'll try it your way this weekend for my next game, I'm sure my mate'll let me proxy it to try it out.

//Calle

With your unit of 6 boyz and a nob receiving 8 wounds you have to allocate 1 wound to each model (total 7) and you can put the other anywhere you want if I'm not mistaken. As for trukks I recommend only a reinforced ram as an upgrade. You want to keep the trukks useful if they survive after dropping off their boyz, and the ram allows you to tank shock. You can get RPJ if you have the extra points but its not a must. IMO deffkoptas are best as a group of 5, two groups of 3, or three groups of 1 depending on point value you play at. Personally I would only use TL rokkits no matter what formation you choose. In your group of 5 take two models with buzzsaws, two groups of 3 take one buzzsaw in each, and in the three groups of 1 take a buzzsaw on one of them. If you like the big bomm, keep using it. If you like something and it fits your play-style who's to argue with taking it or not. You've convinced me to try em out at least once.

You have to allocate wounds evenly, so all orks take a wound each and then distribute the others evenly.

You don't want one deffkopter a unit. I find three works, all with twin-linked rokkits and one buzzsaw. Use the others to take the wounds.

I don't see the point investing points in trukks as they are naff and even S4 weapons can take them out - glance on a 6, but -1 for open topped, roll a 5 and its wrecked.

Nobz: Once your mob is down to 6 boyz, it is expended. 'Eavy Armour will probably not save the unit. Buy an extra boy.
DeffKoptas: I often run units of 1. No morale checks, more flexibility. Yes, more KP, and more FOC slots, but if the FOC is spare anyway, use 'em!
Units of 3 or 4 will have to take morale checks after only 1 loss, possibly causing the rest to run off. I tend to go with 1 or 5.
Trukks: Just Ram. Rokkits will be pretty useless (Why is the trukk moving slow enough to shoot?!?). Red Paint is OK, but adds to the cost of a cheap unit that will get blown up quickly.

I'd sink 100pts into a trukk if it means it'll get it's cargo to where they're needed, but aye, I get your point.

The 'eavy armour would be there to allow the nob to (hopefully, or atleast have a chance to) survive in the above example, to wreak bloody havoc and with a bit o luck klaw 2-3 scorpions to death before he goes down...
A unit ain't spent untill the PK nob is down, and I hope to prolong that as much as possible.

Now, I forgot the BBB at my mates flat when we played last (draw btw, due to the outflanking koptas arriving in turn 6. If they'd shown earlier, I would probably have won..), so I have a Q about morale and numbers.

If I only have one kopta, if he dies, he's gone. If I have three, one dies, and I have to take a morale check for more than 25% casulties due to shooting.
If I have two koptas, and one dies, does the last one have to make a morale check? and does he have to keep taking 'em eveyturn, or what happens? (recalls something about last man standing from the last BBB)?

//Calle

@XellZero: I'm glad to have inspired you with the big bomms. 9/10 they've made their points back. you can easily get 3-6 marines under a template, and if just one dies, congrats, you've made your points back, and hopefully made the enemy a bit cautious, or if he's an older player, given 'im a bloody heartattack

Armour 10 open topped and you'd invest 100 points into them?

If you lose one kopter of out three you'd have to take a morale test as you've lost more than 25% of your unit, each kopter is worth 33%. The kopter only takes the morale test once, but if under half strength and within a enemy unit they will continue to fall back.

Yes, if it made sure they got to deliver their cargo before getting popped

So, if I have 2 koptas, one get's killed I have to take a morale check, and if that fails, just as if I had three, lost one and failed, they(he'd) be unable to regroup, ie, keep running?

I might sound like an imbecile, but I want to make sure I get the hang of this...

Usually, my units haven't legged it, but rather get wiped out...

So, if I have a unit of say 25 boys, they get shot down to 10, they'd take a morale check (more than 25% casultied due to shooting), and if they failed it (and the re-roll from bosspole, with a leadership of NUMBERS -1 for being less than half strength), they'd leg it and be unable to re-group?

If so, DARN IT! I want my mob-up rule back!

//Calle

That's correct. Once an ork footslogger mob starts taking morale checks, it's screwed.

However, keep in mind that your unit in the example still has Ld 9 even with the penalty, and the bosspole can let you reroll, probably at Ld 8; so even in that example, you have a significantly better chance to stand your ground than, well, pretty much anyone else.

Having eavy armour nob in boy mob is good because every 4+ save he makes saves live of a boy what pays the upgrade. Allocate one wound to a nob every time until he is wounded. This can easily save 2-3 boyz per game per squad.

Trukk setup i run is: Armour plates, RPJ 50 pts. can move all the time and is faster than fast

Deffkoptaz work as single 35/45 pt annoyances who can still shoot some guardsmen, break some guardsmen or fire warriors in CC or destroying a transport or dreadnought or other light armour depending on their equip (TL RLs or TL big shootas). Second option is squadrons of two being differently equiped. Giving both buzzsaw and bigbomm makes the squad too expensive so i would suggest giving them one or the other. Same as for single koptaz think if you need more RLs or the big shootas. (depends on enemy you expect, role in army etc.)

Giving Nobz eavy armour is a must I think, and you should give at least one a klaw, but bosspoles are only really nessacary if you get 'em leading boyz.
As for the Trukk, keep the rokkit launcha, mine are a favourite target with my treadhead mate, so giving it some Anti-tank power is recommended

Yeah, take one Deffkopta per slot, don't know about nobs and trukks should able to get your boyz to combat quickly then ram other things until it gets blown up.

Jag_Calle wrote:Yes, if it made sure they got to deliver their cargo before getting popped

Battlewagon? Costs 95 points, holds more and better armour Bonus is its not like a wet paper bag on wheels!

mercer wrote:
Battlewagon? Costs 95 points, holds more and better armour Bonus is its not like a wet paper bag on wheels!

Heh, BWs might not be wet paper bags, they're cardboard with the bonus of a "please shoot me sign" of a deathtrap.
The "ramshackle" rule, and the speed have saved me a lot more than the extra two armour on the BW... face it. front armour means almost nothing, as you can ALMOST allways get LOS to the side of the vehicle if you can see the front =) (hope ya don't take this too seriously mate, just bantering wif ya )

Thanks for all the help guys. I've rummaged around a tad in my 1k list, and I'm off to play a game against my mates SOB in a couple of minutes.
got rid of the trukks rokkit, and the warboss cyborg armour, to make sure all nobs had 'eavy armour. might switch back to cybork in exchange for some lobba krew and an ammo runt, but we'll see.

Here's the list =)

1 Warboss
+Powerklaw
+shoota/scorcha
+Attack squig
+eavy armour
: 110

23 shoota boys
+2 bigshootas
1 Nob
+bosspole
+Powerklaw
+eavy armour
: 199

11 shoota boys
+Rokkit
1 Nob
+bosspole
+powerklaw
+eavy armour
Trukk
+reinforced ram
: 167

14 kommandos
+2 rokkits
1 Kommando nob
+bosspole
+powerklaw
+eavy armour
: 215

2 Deffkoptas
+2 twl rokkits
+1 bigbomm
+Buzz saw
: 130

3 Lobbas
runtherd
+3 extra crew
: 94

3 kannons
runtherd
+3 extra crew
+2 ammo runts
: 85

total: 1000
left: 0

I play bloodaxe, so my boy units are fixed at trukk-amount (12) or platoon (25 incl warboss and nobs), I'll keep the deffkoptas as before, but this time not outflank, but start on the board. kommandos will infiltrate far enugh to take potshots at enemy vehicles 'till they get to charge something weak, or the trukk gets the trukkas in to support a combined charge. the shoota platoon will advance slowly up the centre, supported by the lobbas and kannons raining death on anything in their path, to soften it up.

I know he's changed his army around since last time I played him (I won), and if he beats me too hard, I'll exchange the kommandos for Lootas next time

Not too fond of lootas... but if he goes mechanised on my arse, then he's in for 'em. gods knows they're efficent at taking down any vehicle with side 12 or less...

wish me luck, and I'll tell ya how it went when I get home.

//Calle

Battlewagons are armour 14 at the front, and if you position your battlewagons right you can only draw LOS on the front . But if you want to invest buckets of points on trukks then thats down to you

Your boss needs cybork body or else power weapons etc will tear it a new one.

Don't really need the bosspole on 23 boyz, though I s'pose they are in the open and will get blown to bits pretty quickly :(

Problem is your only have one trukk, easy target and not a lot to pop armour at range.

I lost the game with 1 kp. he scored 5, I 4.

It was close though, had I killed one more of those jump pack SOBs, it'd been a draw, my Genrul wasting his in the last CC phase, in the last turn.

The trukk did it's job, delivering the trukka boys, who in their turn failed utterly (my rolls were NOT above average to say the least, for the entire game) and got thorougly bolted and flamed to death. the trukk on the other hand managed to ram a rhino, tank shock a SOB squad, and stun another rhino.

I'm considering dropping the PK, and 3 boys from the kommando unit. they did what they're supposed to do, ie take potshots at tanks with their rokkits, knocking out an immolator. they then got boltgunned to death. They're a nuisence unit, but I think I've invested too many points in 'em.

As I said earlier, my rolls were worthless, which probably doesn' give the list credit. My lobbas and kannons didn't succeed in ANYTHING, killed like 2-3 SOBs the entire game.

question is, if I shave some 40 points off the kommando unit, what should I do with 'em?

//Calle

Another deffkopter perhaps?

aye, I've been considering that during the day.

but question is; if I remove the PK, in exchange for a 'uge choppa for the kommando nob, will the unit loose too much of it's bite?

//Calle

I don't think kommandos have much bite any way. As you said they are a nusiance unit, but for a lot less cheaper you can get more deffkopters which are still a pain and tougher too.

First and foremost....2 troop choices???? You just lost every game you intend to play right there...

Why spend 100 points on a vehicle that WILL get popped 1st round? Complete waste of points! If you can get your trukks 18 inches up the board before they blow up, they just made their points back...Keep em cheap, use them in high numbers!!! If you want to run vehicles, put your army in vehicles and drive them up...1 trukk ain't gonna cut it, you're splitting your forces. Orks need their entire army to arrive at their enemy at the same time to be effective. A trukk and some kommandos I'll just target everything on them 1st turn without worrying about the other 3/4 of your army that can't really do much for probably 2 turns.

I'm a kommando player, and they aren't worth taking if you don't take Snikrot and 2 burnaz (never take rokkits, they are an infantry killer, not tanks. Use 2 flamer templates or 2 power weapon attacks!). You don't need a pk with this squad, Snikrot at 6str rocks it up enough. Coming on any table edge from reserves is too good! In a 1000pt game this squad is too expensive...use in 1500+. You can just have a full squad of boyz with nob pk/bosspole for that price and gets you another troop choice.

Gunz suck, so if you want some booms, then run a battlewagon with a killkannon. Don't need to roll a 5 just to hit something and it's very killy.


This is what I'd run as it seems you kinda like trukks.

HQ

Warboss
pk, cybork, eavy' armor, squig, skorcha
120pts

TROOP

11 boyz + Nob
pk, bosspole
trukk
ram
152pts

11 boyz + Nob
pk, bosspole
trukk
ram
152

11 boyz + Nob
pk, bosspole
trukk
ram
152pts

10 boyz + Nob
pk, bosspole
trukk
ram
146pts

FAST

Deffkopta
TL Rokkits, buzzsaw
70pts

Deffkopta
TL Rokkits
45pts

HEAVY

Battlewagon
Killkannon
ram
155pts

998pts


Now you have a fast attack army where you aren't splitting your forces and you have that nice big boom gun. If the gun gets destroyed, don't forget you have this big battering ram still to go plow right through some vehicles.

4 Troop choices is a must and now you have it.

I read your list, and come to the conclusion, that as a speed freak list, yes, that'd be good. I don't mean to be rude (hope I don't come off as such, it is not intended), I'll take into account to speed the list up, but you can see my point about BWs below.

I'm bloodaxe.

That aside, I've used this list for 10ish games, and it's done well against Eldar and Marines, and my first game against SOB. it all went haywire when the SOB went mech.
There are 3 things I like ALOT in orks, and have, since I first began in 98ish. That's Lobbas, Kannons, tankbustas, shootas and kommandos.

Since the new dex, wich altered my way of playing, and then the "new" rules", I only bring tankbustas in 2k games, Kannons lost their advantage with "ordnance hits" against vehicles, but are still decent due to the grots increased BS. Lobbas still reign supreme, (except that last game.. *shudders whilst thinking of his scatters..*) wounding most stuff at 3+ or 2+ with a good range (for orks). Kommandos are nice, but lost their ability to take shootas, which lowered 'em in my eyes, but I still like 'em. and Shootaboys, well, I love 'em.

I only own two trukks, and I won't bring less than two BWs if I bring 'em. (target saturation).
I'd love to have Snikrot, but my group has allways ruled out the use of special characters, which is fine with me, as I don't want them using some of theirs

Not being home with my books, I've come up with a scetch for what I'm considering: (fluffy, and hopefully decent)

1 trukk with 11 shootaboys, led by warboss. bigshoota and ram on trukk, PK BP Nob and bigshoota for the boys.
1 trukk with 12 shootaboys, trukk and boys kitted out like above.
12-15 Kommandos, with rokkits and uge choppa nob.
12-15 Kommandos, with burnas and PK nob.
The Lobbas.
12-15 Grots (to slow down anything deepstriking to assault the lobbas).
3 Koptas in a group (wac abusing), all with rokkits, one with saw, one with big bomm.

This'll speed up my list, bring a second trukk (target saturation), cheapen up the speedbump kommando unit.
The fluff is a kommando unit on patrol finding the enemy, radioing in for backup.
the warboss jumps into the nearest trukks with his shoota lads, and lobbas 'n grots in trailers latched on.
koptas and the second kommando unit also hurry on over.

I'll crack the numbers properly tomorrow. Heck, it might even be fun to make trailers for the trukks =P

Thoughts?

//Calle

I know you don't mean to be rude as I don't want to be as well. I'm offering my experience in the game as Orks. I started playing in 5th edition and wished I did in 2nd as Orks looked to be so much more fun to play back then but didnt' win. Now they are one of the best armies. Everybody has their play style and have found success in all kinds of lists. It all boils down to die rolls in the end nobody can deny that. You should play with what makes this game fun for you and you only.

I mainly just wanted to give my experience that the Orks need to hit all at once to be "competitive" in most people's eyes. When you dab in a little of this and a little of that it actually hurts your army with the Orks. When running Space Marines or Tau army for example, you want that, but Orks are an "in you face can you kill enough before I get to you" kind of army.

---Edit--- I missed the "1K" in the Subject line. Disregard my "Lootas" comment below. Too many points for such a small list.
At 1K, you should spam as many Trukk Boyz as you can get, and put the Warboss with one of the units (maybe 'Ard Boyz).
---/Edit---

Remember that the most important thing is that you ENJOY playing this list.
If that's the case, then keep it as it is & ignore the rest of this post.

If not, then you need to realize a few key points about Orks. You will not win regularly until you do.

1) These units are all point sinks that you should cut from your list entirely:
12-15 Kommandos, with rokkits and uge choppa nob.
12-15 Kommandos, with burnas and PK nob.
The Lobbas.
12-15 Grots (to slow down anything deepstriking to assault the lobbas).

None of it will ever get it's points back on a regular basis.

If you want to keep the grots, double their size & max them out fir survivability.

Kommandos.. ::shudder:: Nowhere near worth the points. Expecially not for 2 units.

Lobbas... just not reliable enough.

As said above, you need more troops. Four is minimum in 5e 40K... and Orks should contemplate 5 or 6 since (a) Trukk Boyz are small units (for Boyz) with 6+ saves and (b) footsloggers die by the handfull.

Consider taking Nobs as troops with a Warboss.

RPJ is worth the points. I can't tell you how often that extra inch (EVERY TURN) will come in handy. Many times, it's made the difference between contesting an objective & not (for my & for others in my group).
Ram & RPJ for all vehicles.

Every Nob in a Boys unit should have PK, Extra Armor and a Bosspole.
My preference is that all Boys should be in trukks. They get to HtH faster, and are about the same size as (or bigger than) the footsloggers will be by the time they arrive. Also, Slugga/Choppa. No Shoota. Less shooting (at BS2!), but WAY more HtH attacks (At WS4!).

Forget the Lobbas. If you want good Firepower, use Lootas. I like 15-strong units with a KFF Big Mek. Don't know the Mek points, off hand, but the Lootas would be 225.

As for the "No" special characters... if you ever want to play outside your group, you guys should get used to them. Nobody's going to honor your preference. Especially not in a tourney.

Just my opinions. Hope they help.

Eric