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An alternative list to the one that I posted earlier, do you think this would work?

ORIGINAL LIST
Pedro Kantor - 175pts
5 man Tactical Combat squad with melta bombs, teleport homer, power weapon, melta gun and Razorback - 165pts
5 man Tactical Combat squad with lascannon - 90pts (part of above squad but deployed separate)
5 man Tactical Combat squad with melta bombs, teleport homer, power weapon and Razorback - 160pts

2x 5man Devastator squad with 4x lascannons - 460pts
10 man Terminator squad with assault cannons and 5x chain fists - 485pts
Pre-Heresy Godhammer Land Raider with Multimelta - 260pts
Ironclad with assault launchers and chain fist with Drop Pod and locator beacon - 195pts.

NEW LIST
Pedro Kantor - 175pts
2x 10 man Tactical squad with power weapon and melta gun - 190pts
10 man Tactical squad with power weapon, teleport homer and melta gun - 205pts

10 man Terminator squad with assault cannons and 5x chain fists - 485pts

Pre Heresy Godhammer Land Raider - 250pts
2x Godhammer Land Raider - 500pts

1995pts

Hmm not sure about this Grim badger. Your troop choices are quite under strength. I like what your doing with the las cannon spam, but those devastators do come at a price, and with no extra bodies, people will put the big guns on them for a quick take down. I'm also a fan of the 10 termis with Ass Cannons, they should make a mess when they arrive.

Also this is a vanilla marine list right? If so you can't get special or heavy weapons unless your tac squad is 10 strong. (I think you need to get your troops up to 10 strong anyway. in a 2000 point list you should probably be thinking about at least three, probably four full strength troops choices.)

Definitely drop one of the dev squads and get more bodies.

It's a ten man tactical squad spilt in two, and another 5 man squad.

Lots of tactical squads work well against Orks, but this isn't meant to be a rounded tournament list, I have another army for horde armies

I plan to rush two tactical squad combat squads forward with Kantor (who will give them +1 attack), backed up by the Ironclad in drop-pod and try and tie up other troop choices whilst the lascannons pick off any big stuff But I take your point and will give it some thought.

I really like the look of the list: your army+mech' army=

I agree with Kaptitan Montag, I'd say get a few more bodies on your squads (well except the termie squad! ), I think if you drop the ironclad (who seems a bit outta place compared to the masses of firepower) then you could get another combat squad (and potentially lascannon) and more bodys/wounds on your dev's...

Also, whats the plan for the Land Raider? I can't see anything that it'll be transporting so you could get 2 lascannon predators for about that price. Although you can't fit 2 in the FOC you'll get what I mean!

Anyway, I like the list I just feel it needs a bit more 'polishing' IMHO that is! Also, your avatar rocks!

DRINK!

J.D

The Land Raider may end up carrying 5 of the terminators, but mostly it's a "decoy"; they are a pita to destroy but people tend to waste a lot of effort on them anyway, plus if they don't destroy it, it will make a mess of other armour.

I think you're right about the Ironclad though

Yeah, true, good point, can transport if a razorback gets BBQ'ed too!

Of course I'm right!

Good, luck, look forward to seeing any (if at-all) changes to the list!

DRINK!

J.D

What about this? 40 points short though :(

Pedro Kantor - 175pts
5 man Tactical Combat squad with melta bombs, teleport homer, power weapon, melta gun and Razorback with extra armour - 185pts
5 man Tactical Combat squad with lascannon - 90pts (part of above squad but deployed separate)
5 man Tactical Combat squad with melta bombs, teleport homer, power weapon and Razorback with extra armour - 180pts

2x 10man Devastator squad with 4x lascannons - 620pts
10 man Terminator squad with assault cannons and 5x chain fists - 485pts

Pre Heresy Godhammer Land Raider with Extra Armour - 265pts

2000pts

Looks nice, although moderately scary, but hey I mainly plan Space Wolves, its not like I'd face em'!

Couple of ideas however:
- your razorbacks are your only tanks, and will therefore get popped pretty quickly, especially considering their armour, although I recognise you've tried to compensate for this with the extra armour...

- not sure if the chaplain is necessary, the termies are bad-ass as it is and with a chaplain it confounds the problem of potentially arriving late, although I do love chaplains particually the termie chaplian model!

J.D

Yes I realised that so I had re-written the list earlier but forgot to post it See above as I have edited it

You might be relieved that I've yet to build/buy most of this army

Actually Im disappointed your yet to get most of this army, should be getting it out there and kicking ass!

I think there is still a problem of lacking troops though, your army is bad-ass except for your distinct lack of troops, meaning you'll be at an objective grabbing disadvantage... I THINK to combat this I'd PERSONALLY drop the extra armour on the razorbacks, this will give you almost enough to get a basic 5 man squad, which gives you free extra weapons and access to another lascannon?

Otherwise I'm loving this...

I'm no expert however!

Just done some maths:

Pedro Kantor - 175pts
5 man Tactical Combat squad with power weapon, melta gun and Razorback - 150pts
5 man Tactical Combat squad with lascannon - 90pts (part of above squad but deployed separate)
5 man Tactical Combat squad with power weapon, melta gun and Razorback - 150pts
5 man Tactical Combat squad with lascannon - 90pts (part of above squad but deployed separate)

2x 10man Devastator squad with 4x lascannons - 620pts
10 man Terminator squad with assault cannons and 3x chain fists - 475pts

Pre Heresy Godhammer Land Raider - 250pts

2000pts

I will be building this army with all of the Fists conversion parts from GW and FW, and the tactical pads from GW and probably the Dev squad pads from Chapter House (as GW don't do their own), so it's gonna take ages to build!

Mooch Better!

Personally I think that can kick some a***

Love the theme too, if you check the P+M blog forum you'll find tutorials on how to paint their yellow should you need it...

I think my yellow is okay, though a little grubby for some:

Screw the tutorials! I like yours!

The last list looks pretty good. I'm sure that LR will serve it's purpose of being a fire magnet . Good luck!

I think this list would look better with Lysander + Bolter Drill terminators then Pedro...

Those 10 man Dev. squads are REALLY making me cringe. Do what you like but a las pred could do that o-so much better.

Fluff wise? 6/10 (No vinidis and being led by pedro kills the score IMHO, the devs are the main reason it's higher)

Competitive Wise? Well, it's got 12 Lascannons, that's very 4E, but that picks up the lack of fast meltas so... 5/10

Note: I rate on 5 being average, 9 being god like and I never give 10's because no list, in itself, can be perfect.

EzeKK wrote:I think this list would look better with Lysander + Bolter Drill terminators then Pedro...

Those 10 man Dev. squads are REALLY making me cringe. Do what you like but a las pred could do that o-so much better.

Fluff wise? 6/10 (No vinidis and being led by pedro kills the score IMHO, the devs are the main reason it's higher)

Competitive Wise? Well, it's got 12 Lascannons, that's very 4E, but that picks up the lack of fast meltas so... 5/10

Note: I rate on 5 being average, 9 being god like and I never give 10's because no list, in itself, can be perfect.

Pedro gives +1 attack within 12" which is a vital key to my tactics
Predators blow up all too easily and only have three shots, the Dev squads have four, one of which will be at BS5 and they are damn harder to shift off the table (one lucky shot can't kill them)
Vindicators are rubbish, I have given them more than enough chance to prove themselves but I have had too many pie plates skim off into the distance

For the Good Lords of Terra... get Pedro Kantor out from the list if you want to play the real Imperial Fists, otherwise is a Crimson Fist chapter.

For the rest... I would increase the squad size, use a normal dreadnought and the devastators would have the Missile Launchers.

Effective anti personnel and anti tank. 4 Missiles in the groin every turn hurts (IF you don't do like my Devs that loves to give me four 1s in a shooting phase).

Also, please place a Vindicator. We are siege masters!

KOS wrote:For the Good Lords of Terra... get Pedro Kantor out from the list if you want to play the real Imperial Fists, otherwise is a Crimson Fist chapter.

For the rest... I would increase the squad size, use a normal dreadnought and the devastators would have the Missile Launchers.

Effective anti personnel and anti tank. 4 Missiles in the groin every turn hurts (IF you don't do like my Devs that loves to give me four 1s in a shooting phase).

Also, please place a Vindicator. We are siege masters!

The descriptions of Vladimir Pugh sounds almost identicle to Pedro Kantor, hence why I have no problem in using Kantor
This list is an anti MEQ and armour list so I'm sticking with the lascannon spam
Dreads aren't in my updated lists.
We were seige masters, since the Rowboats big book we are just Seige specialists/lovers. I wish I could use Vindicators, but they are soooo rubbish! about 90% of my shots miss! And Tanks haven't worked right since second edition, they are far too easy to pop.

Vindicators are giving me more satisfaction than the Predator since now.

Anyway, why Assault Cannons when you can use a more deadlier Typhoon Missile Launcher ?

Assault 2 and open fire as a missile launcher.

As far as I've tried out, Assault Cannons did not perform well, while I found to be better with the Typhoon. More shots, capacity of sheer apart infantry and or vehicles. It might be considered!

EDIT

chain fists are ok for me... it's always great to have termies with a can opener

EDIT 2

yikes I've noticed just now... you're using some sort of Grey Knights head for the termies... I use the GK models as assault teminators when I field them.

Do you mean the Cyclone missile launcher? I've had a lot of luck with assault cannons, I love them so it's a personnal thing (I may have a pair of CML alternates).

The head is just a normal terminator head with the nose cut off, again it's just a personnal thing as I hate the look of the standard terminator head

yep sorry, I meant the Cyclone... gah...dumb thinking due to work time

Yay, another I.F player!

Last list looks ok, but pedro allows sternguard to count as scoring. Would be a good idea to take some of these.

Those dev squads are nasty. They cost 620 points, thats more than two land raiders! I'd rather take the two land raiders than pay that much points.

What is a godhammer land raider?

mercer wrote:Yay, another I.F player!

Last list looks ok, but pedro allows sternguard to count as scoring. Would be a good idea to take some of these.

Those dev squads are nasty. They cost 620 points, thats more than two land raiders! I'd rather take the two land raiders than pay that much points.

What is a godhammer land raider?

A Godhammer is the "standard" pattern i.e. twin linked lascannon sponsons and heavy bolter on the hull.

Two lucky shots can take out a pair of land raiders; you need 20 lucky shots, wounds and failed saves to kill all of the devs. Sure they will fall to small arms fire, but who's going to worry about them when they have two tactical squads and 10 terminators in their faces?

What's up mercer? Godhammer is the 'normal' twin lascannon model. I agree with your main 2 points, dev squads are expensive and sternguard are cool.

So OP, how many sternguard with combimeltas could you get for one of those dev squads? Or if you're locked into the devestators, lascannons are absurdly overcosted. If you took 2 multimeltas/2 lascannons, you could afford a razorback to transport the multimelta combat squad. More flexibility, firepower and resilience that way.

You don't have an incredible amount of scoring units, so I would really consider the sternguard over devestators - they provide a unit capable of taking and holding objectives.

I thought it was, but wasn't sure. I've heard it referred as a godhammer before.

You don't need lucky shots with devs, you just need shots. Yes they will fall to small arms fire like you said, will a land raider? No. A land raider is more durable and you'll have three, far more affective.

Two tactical squads? Please let me have a chuckle....sorry about that, but seriously, two tactical squads in a 2,000 point list and one land raider and 10 terminators. My Imperial Fist list has same terminators, more land raiders and more troops and another useful unit - your dev's are sucking your points out.

In objective game you will struggle, sure terminators are tough. You have one land raider, that becomes a primary target.

Also where is kantor going in all this?

What's up mercer? Godhammer is the 'normal' twin lascannon model. I agree with your main 2 points, dev squads are expensive and sternguard are cool.

Aye Jasper, how goes it? Aye, sternguard are cool, we both know how they raped your pathfinders lol.

Hmmm, more land raiders, don't know why I didn't think of that.

How about:

Pedro Kantor - 175pts
2x 10 man Tactical squad with power weapon and melta gun - 190pts
10 man Tactical squad with power weapon, teleport homer and melta gun - 205pts

10 man Terminator squad with assault cannons and 5x chain fists - 485pts

Pre Heresy Godhammer Land Raider - 250pts
2x Godhammer Land Raider - 500pts

1995pts

3 Land Raiders ?

Oh my God... 3 mobile cubes waiting to explode on the battlefield. From my experience, a Land Raider rarely get the things done well. :(

I think thats a better list.

You've got a place for pedro to go more now.

You can split the terminators into two units if you like and pop them both in land raiders. You've got anti tank and anti troop.

3 mobile cubes which make you target prority...

What are people smoking today this is the 2nd list to include Pedro and no sternguard. Why? Why pay 175 points for a PF CM that dies at the drop of a hat thanks to a 3+/4++ save and no enternal warrior.

Take him to allow you to spam Sternguard and he's the 2nd best character in the codex take him and no sternguard is even worse than taking a normal CM which no-one takes because they are useless...

Especially as your initial list included Dev squads with lascannons. Where as for 5 points LESS that 5 Devs with 2 LCs you can get 5 SG with 2 LCs and gain +1a, Special ammo and scoring all for 5 fewer points!! In fact you could have 2 Sternguard squads with 2 LCs each for the same price as 1 of your Dev squads with 4 LCs and again get all those benefits for zero points. It beggars belief!

So you've settled on LR spam. Have you seen the BA codex? You could do it much better with that. At 2000 points you could fit in 6 Landraiders in that codex and get a cover save bubble in there too!