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Hi all. I was wondering, can a model carrying a webway portal deploy it from a raider if the raider hasn't moved/shot in the turn yet?

No.

Gwar! strikes again!

Gwar! wrote:No.

Can you elaborate on that?

Pg 15 DE Codex requires you to place the marker in base contact with the figure using it. If you're in a transport your base isn't on the table and thus nothing can be placed in base contact with it.

Ah, ok. Thanks.

So is there an actual marker out there for it or just an extra template?

Just an extra template.

You can trace the small blast marker onto card and use that though.

I've done this for my "webway strike force" for apoc (CE, not DE but the effect is the same) and painted lightning coruscations over it (like a flat 'vortex' template).

Thor665 wrote:Pg 15 DE Codex requires you to place the marker in base contact with the figure using it. If you're in a transport your base isn't on the table and thus nothing can be placed in base contact with it.

That reasoning just doesn't wash in my opinion. You can use template weapons in open-topped vehicles using any portion of the hull of the vehicle as the beginning of the template. In my opinion the spirit of the rules counts the hull as the base of the model using the weapon/ability.

Thalor wrote: You can use template weapons in open-topped vehicles using any portion of the hull of the vehicle as the beginning of the template.

No Offence, but so fething what? That's the rules for Template Weapons, not the Webway Portal.

In my opinion the spirit of the rules counts the hull as the base of the model using the weapon/ability.

And in my opinion the spirit of the rules states that my Space Wolves are 10 on every stat except save where they are a 1+ rolled on 5D6 and that if I have an Inquisitor in my army I autowin because I just nuke it from Orbit.

Either play by the rules or don't play.

I am playing by the rules. It states in the rulebook that not all situations can be covered in the book and that players should resolved any rules questions in a mutually agreed manner. Counting your wolves as having stats of 10 is against the rules as written. The situation with the webway is not covered due to the age of the codex. Also, the rules state that ALL shooting from open-topped transports counts as if it's from the hull.

Either know the rules or don't post.

Thalor wrote:I am playing by the rules. It states in the rulebook that not all situations can be covered in the book and that players should resolved any rules questions in a mutually agreed manner. Counting your wolves as having stats of 10 is against the rules as written. The situation with the webway is not covered due to the age of the codex. Also, the rules state that ALL shooting from open-topped transports counts as if it's from the hull.

Either know the rules or don't post.

Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...

Thalor=Fail. So much fail.

Org wrote:

Thalor wrote:I am playing by the rules. It states in the rulebook that not all situations can be covered in the book and that players should resolved any rules questions in a mutually agreed manner. Counting your wolves as having stats of 10 is against the rules as written. The situation with the webway is not covered due to the age of the codex. Also, the rules state that ALL shooting from open-topped transports counts as if it's from the hull.

Either know the rules or don't post.

Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...

Thalor=Fail. So much fail.

I agree with Org.

Protip: I do know the rule. The rules are clear, you cannot do it from a Transport. If you want to cheat, fine by me, but do not pass it off as rules. Why is my one against the rules as written and yours not? Once again, TMIR rears its ugly head as a way for people to cheat,

Also, (since I don't have my sig anymore, was taking too much room ) Gwar! is always right

Show me a rule that says you can do it from a Raider. "It doesn't say I can't" does not cut it here I am afraid.

The webway portal is not a shooting attack, it is wargear that is activated.
Since it is not a shooting attack, you don't measure from the fire point.
Since it is not a Psychic attack or power, it is not measured from the hull.
It is activated as the DE codex states, which means a spare blast marker is placed in base contact with the model that activated it.
The blast marker represents the portal, not a weapon or a shot.
Since the vehicle did not activate it, you don't place the marker in base contact with the vehicle.
On a side note, if the model with the webaway was embarked, it would have to wait another turn to activate the portal after disembarking since whether the transport moved or not, a disembarking model counts as moving.

Thalor wrote:Also, the rules state that ALL shooting from open-topped transports counts as if it's from the hull.

Placing a Webway Portal is shooting? I hadn't realized. Where does it say that?

Thor665 wrote:

Thalor wrote:Also, the rules state that ALL shooting from open-topped transports counts as if it's from the hull.

Placing a Webway Portal is shooting? I hadn't realized. Where does it say that?

Quick! I shall send a telegram to The Times in London old chap! You send one to your Colonial Equivalent! This revelation must not go unheeded!

To the Trollmobile!

Play nice, guys.

I am playing by the rules. It states in the rulebook that not all situations can be covered in the book and that players should resolved any rules questions in a mutually agreed manner.

Thalor, please read Tenets of You Make Da Call with particular attention to number 7, TMIR.

time wizard wrote:Since it is not a Psychic attack or power, it is not measured from the hull.

This one is irrelevant, anything relating to measuring to the unit is done from the hull, if the webway portal said "deploy the webway portal within 1 inch of the person carrying it" then you could use it from a raider because you can measure to the hull instead, it doesn't have to be a psychic attack or power for this to happen.

On a side note, if the model with the webaway was embarked, it would have to wait another turn to activate the portal after disembarking since whether the transport moved or not, a disembarking model counts as moving.

I would dispute this, the wording to me only indicates that you cannot shoot or move in the shooting phase, what you do in the movement phase has no effect on your ability to deploy the portal.

Drunkspleen wrote:I would dispute this, the wording to me only indicates that you cannot shoot or move in the shooting phase, what you do in the movement phase has no effect on your ability to deploy the portal.

I think you're mistaken here - if you read the Webway portal description you will see it can be deployed in the shooting phase instead of moving or shooting that turn.

I believe you're mistaking phase for turn.

Thor665 wrote:

Drunkspleen wrote:I would dispute this, the wording to me only indicates that you cannot shoot or move in the shooting phase, what you do in the movement phase has no effect on your ability to deploy the portal.

I think you're mistaken here - if you read the Webway portal description you will see it can be deployed in the shooting phase instead of moving or shooting that turn.

I believe you're mistaking phase for turn.

It's admittedly vague, I think it's only referring to the shooting phase OF that turn, rather than the entirety of the turn, which happens to match the (much clearer) rules for the Ulthwe Strike Force Wraithgate. Of course the wraithgate is a whole other piece of wargear, so I wouldn't base my argument on it, but I feel both readings of the Webway Portal rules are equally valid, my local group that I normally play with agree with me, although TOs are hard to predict (I get about 50/50 results when contacting them.

edit: just to clarify for others the wording is "It may be activated by the model carrying it in the shooting phase, instead of moving or shooting that turn."

Not to be contrarian, but I don't see how that rule is in any way vague. I've played WWP armies since 2002, and I've never even considered deploying the portal if the unit carrying it that turn had moved.

I'm really not sure how "instead of moving or shooting that turn" is interpreted as "instead of moving or shooting in the shooting phase."

Moot point. To use a power, don't you have to actually have the model on the table unless it specifies otherwise?

If anyone knows which rule this is, kick out the page number for me. If there is no page number, point and laugh.

abortedsoul wrote:Moot point.

It is up for discussion? (Inb4Kirsanth )

Rarrr!

As noted, the portal marker has to be placed in base contact with the activating model.

There are rules for measuring distance to and from an embarked model (p66, right?), but they do not specify that this counts as base contact. The general consensus is that that would be absurd, since it would result in things like a unit assaulting a transport and claiming to be in combat with an embarked unit, since they’re in contact with the vehicle. Obviously that’s not the intent.

As Saldiven and others have pointed out, you cannot use the portal if you move or shoot that TURN. Not that phase. Different words, different meanings.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Gwar, please leave off the "fething" and the "if you want to cheat". Both are againt the tenets, and you know better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

abortedsoul wrote:Moot point. To use a power, don't you have to actually have the model on the table unless it specifies otherwise?

If anyone knows which rule this is, kick out the page number for me. If there is no page number, point and laugh.

There was a 4th edition FAQ that said this. It's never been part of the main rules, and the 5th ed rulebook actually specifically says that models embarked in transports can use stuff. Again, IIRC that's' on page 66.

Saldiven wrote:Not to be contrarian, but I don't see how that rule is in any way vague. I've played WWP armies since 2002, and I've never even considered deploying the portal if the unit carrying it that turn had moved.

I'm really not sure how "instead of moving or shooting that turn" is interpreted as "instead of moving or shooting in the shooting phase."

It's because the sentence is already talking about a section of time "the shooting phase" when it goes on to tell you the restrictions "instead of moving or shooting that turn" making the latter restrictions "belong" to the earlier defined time period, it is simply saying that for that turn's shooting phase you cannot move or shoot.

Drunkspleen wrote:

Saldiven wrote:Not to be contrarian, but I don't see how that rule is in any way vague. I've played WWP armies since 2002, and I've never even considered deploying the portal if the unit carrying it that turn had moved.

I'm really not sure how "instead of moving or shooting that turn" is interpreted as "instead of moving or shooting in the shooting phase."

It's because the sentence is already talking about a section of time "the shooting phase" when it goes on to tell you the restrictions "instead of moving or shooting that turn" making the latter restrictions "belong" to the earlier defined time period, it is simply saying that for that turn's shooting phase you cannot move or shoot.

But the problem is that "phase" and "turn" have specific in-game meanings that are not interchangeable. "Turn" specifically means "player turn" as defined by the BRB.

I concur with Saldiven's reading of the rule.

Turn is a game term. It has a clear meaning.