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Greetings all,

Two questions about Greater Daemons:

1) When a Greater Daemon arrives via DS and 'possesses' one of your characters, it removes said character from the board as a casualty. What, then, happens to the link between the character and his unit? Does the Daemon stay attached to the unit? Do the Daemon and the unit become separate entities that just happen to be stood next to each other?

2) CSM Codex: Pg 102 - 'Your army may include a single Greater Daemon. This model does not use up any force organisation chart selection, but is otherwise treated as a HQ unit.' (Emphasis mine). What is meant by this? What characteristics does a HQ unit possess that might be relevant outside the FOC?

Some clarification would be appreciated, although I suspect I know the answer to #1, just want it confirmed.

1) As the GD does not have the "IC" rule, it cannot join the unit or indeed remain part of it

2) For anything that specifically deals with affecting HQ choices, such as some tournament setups. It would be anomalous to have something not existing somewhere on the FOC - everything else does!

nosferatu1001 wrote:2) For anything that specifically deals with affecting HQ choices, such as some tournament setups. It would be anomalous to have something not existing somewhere on the FOC - everything else does!

But as it also states "This model does not use up any force organisation chart selection..." (so it doesn't meddle with other HQ choices) can I safely assume that the answer to my question is that this has no bearing on anything in any way at all?

2: Pretty much just means that it isn't a troop and therefore isn't scoring.

I think was nosferatu was trying to suggest is that, sometimes tournaments limit to you to 1 or 2 HQs, including those that lie outside of the force organisation chart, such as greater daemons.

So you could only take the greater daemon if the limit was 1 and something else if the limit was two, not two other HQs and the daemon.

And yes the daemon becomes a 'unit' of it's own after it has arrived.

Just another question on the same topic. If the removal of the champion forces your squad below 25% would you be requried to take the morale test?

Winter wrote:I think was nosferatu was trying to suggest is that, sometimes tournaments limit to you to 1 or 2 HQs, including those that lie outside of the force organisation chart, such as greater daemons.

So you could only take the greater daemon if the limit was 1 and something else if the limit was two, not two other HQs and the daemon.

And yes the daemon becomes a 'unit' of it's own after it has arrived.

Just another question on the same topic. If the removal of the champion forces your squad below 25% would you be requried to take the morale test?

Or, some tournament scenarios might award you bonus VPs for each HQ unit you destroy, etc. . .

nosferatu1001 wrote:1) As the GD does not have the "IC" rule, it cannot join the unit or indeed remain part of it

I agree.

Tantras wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:2) For anything that specifically deals with affecting HQ choices, such as some tournament setups. It would be anomalous to have something not existing somewhere on the FOC - everything else does!

But as it also states "This model does not use up any force organisation chart selection..." (so it doesn't meddle with other HQ choices) can I safely assume that the answer to my question is that this has no bearing on anything in any way at all?

That's not quite true. Previous posters did say this, but in terms of a scenario where HQ's are worth 2KP, or double VP it would matter. It also matters that it is not a scoring unit. For a third recap, It is an HQ choice, but cannot be your only HQ choice, so in special games where you are limited to one selection from the HQ section, Greater Daemon is not an option (for codex CSM).

Hope that helps more than just repeating what has already been said.

Thanks all, we've cleared this up nicely - I hadn't considered VP implications and suchlike, also a very good point about it not being legal as the only HQ in a force.

However I am still curious about this:

Winter wrote:Just another question on the same topic. If the removal of the champion forces your squad below 25% would you be requried to take the morale test?

Thoughts?

Tantras wrote:Thanks all, we've cleared this up nicely - I hadn't considered VP implications and suchlike, also a very good point about it not being legal as the only HQ in a force.

However I am still curious about this:

Winter wrote:Just another question on the same topic. If the removal of the champion forces your squad below 25% would you be requried to take the morale test?

Thoughts?

Of course you would have to take a morale check. There is no specific exemption from this rule. In fact, it happened to me in the last game I fielded a greater daemon in.

BTW: summoned greater daemons are worthless.

I agree with Willy about the rule.

Not about the GD, though. 100pts + cost of champ. I enjoy them. They kill stuff. And they look cool.

I wouldn't take one unless I had a specific sacrificial champ in mind to die, though. I don't like losing a valuable one with a powerfist or something.

Mannahnin wrote:I agree with Willy about the rule.

Not about the GD, though. 100pts + cost of champ. I enjoy them. They kill stuff. And they look cool.

I wouldn't take one unless I had a specific sacrificial champ in mind to die, though. I don't like losing a valuable one with a powerfist or something.

They only kill stuff if your opponent lets them.

If he runs his whole army away from the transport bearing the possession-bound champ, that tends to put me in a better position to win the game.

Or he kills the champ, ofrcing you to lose another HQ / champ

I find they do well: the lack of wings hurts them massively though if they pop up when you are already in combat it suddenly screws up the opponent somewhat.

If they're nurgle they never need to take a morale test. (heavy on the sarcasm)

I haven't had an opponent manage to kill the champ yet, though I came extremely close in a 1k game. It's a risk, but a 100pt MC is generally worth the risk, IMO.