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To start off, I love Dire Avengers and Shining Spears. I hoped to incorporate them into my army and I came up with this.

3x Wave Serpants (2 with BL, 1 with Shuriken Cannons)
3x 10 Dire Avengers (Duel Catapults)

1x Falcon (Holo-Shields, BL)
1x 6 Fire Dragons (Exarch with Pike, Tank Hunters)

1x 5 Shining Spears (Skilled Rider, Withdraw)
1x Autarch Jetbike (Star Lance, etc) *Question, can the Autarch join the Shining Spears Squad even when the max size for the squad is 5?

2x Fire Prisms (bare bones, no upgrades)

I have 238 points left and I would really appreciate advice on what else to include.

Some questions I hope can get answered.

1.) Is this Army solid? I feel I have everything except CC covered. Anti-Tank (BLs + Fire Dragons), Large Blasts (Fire Prisms linked), and Anti-Infantry (Dire Avengers)
2.) How will I fare against MEQ armies? It feels like every average Joe and punk kids all play Space Marines or CSM. At least 40-60% of my opponents are MEQ armies. Black Templars, Dark Angels, Space Marines, etc.
3.) How do I address the lack of any CC in my list? Is this a bad thing, do I absolutely need CC? I feel Mech Eldar doesn't really have good options for CC anyway since Avatar and Wraithlords are not a option. Banshees are really only a 1 time use, and Seer Council are an "anvil" unit.
4.) MOST IMPORTANTLY, what else should I take with the remaining points.

Thanks in advance!

1. Looks like a solid list.
2. Your army is faster, speed is your armor. Use it.
3. I'd take 2 FD units both in Serpents. CC units are not a must-have.
4. I'd include a Jetseer able to fortune the Shining Spears and possible to doom an enemy unit.

The Autarch can join the Spears no matter how large this squad is.
Moreover, the Autarch benefits from the Exarch powers.

For the extra points:
Farseer - Bike, SStones, Doom, Fortune
Jetbikes (3) - SCannon

4. I would take another Fire dragon squad in a wave serpent. You can never have too many fire dragons.

More fire dragons is a very good idea.... and dump the one unit of FD that you already have out of that falcon and give them a serpent instead. A unit of dragons are going to be moving in close to enemy armor so their transport can expect to be hit with melta weapons. This makes the serpent a better buy, especially since the falcon isnt going to be able to fire both of its weapons when it moves.

You dont really need any other cc units, your spears are a very fast cc unit. Thats enough points in cc, use the rest of your points to blow things up

That said, a farseer is never a bad thing in an eldar list. And with the proliferation of psychic powers a farseer with runes of warding can make life so much easier for the eldar player its almost a must have if you expect to see any psychers.



Sliggoth

More fire dragons, but honestly drop the exarch and tank hunters. Tank hunters is just over kill and the points can be spend better else where.

Your CC is more than capable enough with the Shining Spears. In fact an army list I played around with for some time was Units of Dire Avengers and Shining Spears working in close support.

If you are seriously worried about close combat then dire avengers with Defend and a Shimmer Shield can tie up all but the most serious close combat opponents. The Spears counter charge and should destroy the reduced unit, the Dire avengers jump into the transport and the spears move back into cover. Next turn the Dire avengers jump out and blade storm.

Farseer's with runes of warding are a very good buy in the current situation, especially with the amount of armies capable of outstripping us in the Psychic power areas.... (I'll just leave that at that before I go off on a rant!!!!!!)

Again a Farseer that dooms a unit before it is pounced on by 2 Dire Avenger unit's jumping out of a transport and blade storming it is going to cause a real mess. Any survivors are charged by spears who will mop them up.

Speed in this army is a real benefit and the Dire avengers can do a tau type FoF move from serpents with good results. More Dragons are a good buy simply because they cover MEQ, TEQ, and any armoured unit.

So yeah, i'd go for a Farseer (on a Jetbike maybe?) and more Fire Dragons. Or if you are worried about CC then Banshees will work well in tandum with Dire avengers who have defence. The Dire avengers soak up the charge (or bladestorm and charge, reducing attacks by 1 and throwing out 50 attacks that turn!!) and then the Banshee's counter charge and jump back in the transport

I have found in this Edition that although the rules favour brutal CC that using mech and speed will allow you to fight close firefights and use your CC units to counter charge when large troops or capable troops have tied up an oponent... Obviously though don't try and tie up a unit that your DA's can't handle... use Fire Dragons and Spears to hit that unit hard and fast.

So in summary

1) Its solid
2) Should fare well, if you are worried plenty of options to beef up the army against them (Farseer with Doom and Avengers with Bladestorm, More Fire Dragons, Banshee's)
3) You don't absolutely need CC but Banshee's in a waveserpent can work well as a counter charge. You need to consider what you want to use as a soak unit. Otherwise use Spears as counter charge and Scorpion's as the resilient CC unit. Brings in potential stealth moves then as well.
4) Farseer with Doom is a good buy make him manoeuvrable and he will help this army no end. Fire Dragons are a very good all round unit. Banshee's or Scorpions will add CC potential if you are worried

5) Autarch can join the spears, unit size doesn't matter for an independent character joining them.

Brutoni wrote:
So in summary

1) Its solid

Sorry bud but I have to disagree. The list is far from solid at all.

He has minimum ranged anti tank, just packing two brightlances. The serpents with those brightlances can't do a lot against infantry so need shuriken cannon upgrades.

Doesn't have enough fire dragons and points wasted on tank hunters at the very least.

Shining spears I find to be meh.

Fire prisms are ok, but to get that S10 ap1 shot you lose firing abilities of another.

He's only got 238 points left, my eldar army has more skimmers, more ranged anti tank, more fire dragons, close combat and jetbikes for the same point cost. Sorry if harsh, but please don't say lists are solid when they are not :(

You stated something as fact when in fact it is very conjecture based. What is solid for tournament play may be complete overkill for casual/themed play. Secondly Solid is what I would call dependable not necessarily powerful and able to obliterate everything.

Perhaps you could post your army before making sweeping statements and putting someone down? As a scientist I really struggle when people argue a point without showing the evidence.

Shining spears are very effective, but then my experience of using them is potentially very different.

More fire Dragons have been suggested by everyone as had dropping the Tank hunter so I didn't feel like labouring that point!
Ranged Anti-Tank isn't by any means necessary, with more fire dragons AND 2 Bright lances AND Fire Prisims AND Starlances he has plenty of anti-tank ability

So no you didn't seem harsh but please don't treat a subject like fact when it is as far from fact as possible. Sorry if I seem harsh, it's just annoying when everyone goes "This is the only and best way to build a list. Or solid lists MUST have this." When in reality it depends entirely on your situation, your opponents, your luck, your tactics and strategy as a player, your opponents skill level and about a thousand other things including what army you are playing against.

Oh and remember he said he loved Dire Avengers and Shining Spears so you can't exactly swap them out in the list can you.

Sorry but it is fact. You've said its solid and it isn't and I've given reasons why. The list has a few holes in it which need fixing to be classed as solid. This list isn't dependable with two ranged anti tank weapons.

One particular thing, which I already mentioned btw, was wave serpents. Brightlances are good, but once popped vehicles what are the brightlances going to do then? Shuriken catapults upgraded to cannons would be affective.

I didn't say this is the only way and best way to build a list. I just said the list isn't solid, which if you cast your eye over again you'll probably agree if you look at the lack of ranged anti tank as one problem for example.

I used love necrons, but they fail. I used to love howling banshees, they fail too :( . Unfortunately a lot of things fail for various reasons. Sometimes you just need to bite the bullet. I've always found shining spears not to last 5 minutes. HOwever, I didn't mention anything about dire avengers? Considering, for a scientist you struggle putting what people actually said, even with evidence previously.

As for army lists, I don't know why I need to post mine as mine isn't up for question, but here's mine if you really want it - sorry O.P for the hijack.


Farseer Doom, Fortune, spirit stones, runes of warding & runes of witnessing

Elites

10 x Striking Scorpions w/ Wave Serpent serpent w/ scatter laser & shuriken cannon
5 x Fire Dragons
5 x Fire Dragons

Troops

10 x Dire Avengers w/ Wave Serpent serpent w/ brightlance & shuriken cannon - exarch w/ power weapon
10 x Dire Avengers w/ Wave Serpent serpent w/ brightlance & shuriken cannon - exarch w/ power weapon
10 x Dire Avengers w/ Wave Serpent serpent w/ brightlance & shuriken cannon - exarch w/ bladestorm
6 x Guardian jetbikes 2 x shuriken cannon

Heavy Support

Fire Prism shruiken cannon
Falcon shruiken cannon
Falcon shruiken cannon

Okay, the list fails for various reasons but all you have really pointed at is lack of ranged combat... and shining spears.

The Serpents have the same configuration as yours minus the upgrade to shuriken cannon. With the points he has spare (and unsure what to do with) he can easily accommodate those changes no?

He has 2 FP and a Falcon instead of 2 Falcon and a FP. Overall there isn't much difference here and many would argue that the FP is the better tank in the current rules due to the increased versatility of a pair of FP's working in concert. Not to mention the nerf to skimmers moving and shooting with multiple weapons etcetc

He has the same core to the army. 3 Squads of 10 Dire Avengers

He has Fire Dragons and the points left to get another bare bones squad of them (especially if he cuts the other squad down). Should he do that he can even swap a FP for a Falcon if needs be.

Instead of Scorpions he has gone for Shining spears. You say that yours last 5 minutes, but that could simply be down to opponents fearing them, targeting them instead of other units, not using them as well as other people could and a multitude of other reasons.

So no overall i'd say once his list is finished off, and has been pruned a little bit and strengthened you will find it a solid list. Not at all that far removed from your very own list I might add. It has the same core, the same feel of tanks and some very similar aspect choices.

Perhaps I should have been more clear. The list has the potential to be a solid list when finished if the last points are used correctly.

TBH I've never used shining spears, just played against them and I find they don't last long.

I think your last sentence is more accurate, and in fact agrees with that I said. The list has holes, and the last points can be used to plug those holes.

Okay, in that case I apologise for any misunderstanding. I've used Spears and I love them but I don't think anyone can deny they are fragile.

I use them in a Dire Avenger and Spear heavy list. The Dire Avengers take an assault if it is going to come and then the spears counter attack. Obviously against some opponents this is a bad idea but for the most the damage between the two units works well enough.

Spears are useful units and pretty powerful in current mech environment due to being able to blast transports from their lances and then pull back and expose the inside units to dire avenger bladestorm. They also are somewhat capable on the charge hitting at very high strength for eldar, ignoring armour saves as well. I find units like Terminators really suffer against them. Withdraw is well worth it just to pull them out ready to start the fight again in your combat phase.

Then again, it's down to taste and i'm sure the tournament players could point to some far more effective units. I just do like Shining Spears!!

3x Wave Serpants (2 with BL, 1 with Shuriken Cannons)
3x 10 Dire Avengers (Duel Catapults)

This looks fine. Except for 2 things. Ive been running 3 with lances and they work so much better then just a pair. Also, if you are paying for the exarch, the full squad, and the dual cats throw bladestorm on them, it makes a huge difference.

1x Falcon (Holo-Shields, BL)
1x 6 Fire Dragons (Exarch with Pike, Tank Hunters)

Im not a fan of this unit at all. No reason to ever take the firepike. Tank hunters is a must though if you only have 1 dragon squad. Bright lance on the falcon, but no spirit stones. This means that over half of your armies truly effective anti tank is tied up in one tank. I will do everything to stop it, and all I need is an immobilized.

1x 5 Shining Spears (Skilled Rider, Withdraw)
1x Autarch Jetbike (Star Lance, etc) *Question, can the Autarch join the Shining Spears Squad even when the max size for the squad is 5?

I dont ever run shining spears. Its not that they arent effective. If you charge a squad of 10 marines with them this unit will do some serious damage. Its that they can no longer hide in 5th, and so are overpriced and die easily. And yes the autarch can join them, since hes not bought for the unit.

2x Fire Prisms (bare bones, no upgrades)

I am of the philosophy that falcons and prisms always need holo fields. Often times it either scares enemies into not shooting them, or enemies put everything into them.

I have 238 points left and I would really appreciate advice on what else to include.

Some questions I hope can get answered.

1.) Is this Army solid? I feel I have everything except CC covered. Anti-Tank (BLs + Fire Dragons), Large Blasts (Fire Prisms linked), and Anti-Infantry (Dire Avengers)
Drop the autarch and spears and run a seer council with eldrad/farseer

2.) How will I fare against MEQ armies? It feels like every average Joe and punk kids all play Space Marines or CSM. At least 40-60% of my opponents are MEQ armies. Black Templars, Dark Angels, Space Marines, etc.
Most MEQ players are chumps. Well no I shouldnt say that. But a fair amount of them I have found cannot handle eldar for some reason.

Heres my 2000 point list. I ran it at a smaller event at my LGS, lowest player got to pick who to play and so on up. I was not picked to be played against last two rounds
Eldrad
Yriel
7 warlocks, 2 embolden, 1 enhance, 1 destructor
wave serpent-twin linked shuriken cannons, spirit stones

2x 5 fire dragons
2x wave serpents-twin linked shuriken cannons, spirit stones

3x 5 dire avengers
3x wave serpents-twin linked bright lances, spirit stones

2x fire prisms-holo fields, spirit stones.

Its a very nasty list.