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Using army builder that I had I used a space marine list to get an idea of how I might do my Space wolves once I get some stuff for them.

I think for a Space wolves list I should get to know Space Marines a bit better so I can make better use of the Space Wolves. For the list on Space Marines I created I made one HQ a Space Marine Chapter Master in Terminator Armor with a Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield. Is this a good idea to use such a thing?

Also what kinds of ways would you configure the HQ'S on Space Wolves and how are they best used? Do I mix the Close Combat with Shooting? Use them as I would Orks?

So far I only gots a really crappy Tau army (Main Army) that I suck at using and a even worst Ork Army cuz All I got for them is 3 black reach sets that I split with some people so I only got the Orks. and 7 mega nobs and a Trukk.

Pretty much I still needs tons of Models for all my armies. So What are some of the best gear to use and how would you use them?

Also, Would throwing every one of them into a drop pod and drop podding your entire army out be a good idea?

I'll go down your questions in order.

For the list on Space Marines I created I made one HQ a Space Marine Chapter Master in Terminator Armor with a Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield. Is this a good idea to use such a thing?

No. Take advantage of the I5 S6 Relic Blade. The THammer's only S8 as opposed to the S10 PK.

Also what kinds of ways would you configure the HQ'S on Space Wolves and how are they best used?

I wouldn't use vanilla Wolf Lords or Battle Leaders. In fact, apart from Special Characters, I would only use rune priests. Living Lightning and Tempest's Wrath, Living Lightning and JoTWW, etc. Logan is awesome.

Do I mix the Close Combat with Shooting? Use them as I would Orks?

With Marines, specialize.

So What are some of the best gear to use and how would you use them?

Not quite sure wat you're asking here.

Also, Would throwing every one of them into a drop pod and drop podding your entire army out be a good idea?

Wolves can do this pretty well.

If you want to go for Space Wolves, I'd go straight to them. Otherwise you'll get confused with the differences between them and the Vanilla options.

Really, the two armies are more linked in theme than in function.

Just use the old SW AB list. there is a few things that don't work, but the feel is there

Aside from the fact that they share the classic "space marine" stats, SW and normal marines play pretty differently from one another.

Space Marines have combat tactics and heavy weapons in troop squads. Their troop squads also have a built-in Ld 9 sergeant.

Space Marines have Stern Guard and much cheaper TH/SS terminators.

Space Wolves have double special weapons in their troops squads, and their troops are much more assault-oriented. They also don't have a Ld 9 squad leader without making some pretty important decisions: you can't fit two special weapons and the squad leader all in a rhino or drop pod.

Space wolves have the "classic" transport limitations on their drop pods and land raider variants.

Space wolves have Thunderwolf Cavalry and Long Fangs, making non-mechanized space wolf armies much more viable than non-mechanized marine armies.

That in fact, could be seen as a basic difference between the two books:

Space Marines do bikes and mech better.
Space Wolves do foot and cavalry better.

willydstyle wrote:
Space Marines do bikes and mech better.
Space Wolves do foot and cavalry better.

lol even IG do cavalry better the SM ... since space marines don't have any.

There is only one big difference between the 2 armies

Wolves have better CC
Marines have more Heavy weapons (/options).

I don't know where this rumor that Space Wolves can't do mech well started, but it is most definitely untrue.

The primary difference is between the two is that Codex Space Marines are generally better at being adaptable with an eye towards shooting, most of their assault elements are best taken as counter assault, not really front line troops. You can do the two squads of Thunderhammer/SS Terminators in Two Land Raiders, but it really is not as effective as people make it out to be. Whereas Space Wolves are a much more aggressive army. They can give and take charges better, and their troops love to be on the front line, some would argue they are slightly cheaper then Tactical Squads to let you be less worried about taking casualties. Space Wolves primary downside is that their "better" units tend to be pricey, so you are constantly playing a balancing act between cheap troops and expensive killey.

It's not that they can't do mech well. It's just that SMs do mech better, using their rhinos as bunkers for multi-meltas, and cheaper TH/SS terms in land raiders.

If another codex does mech better, why build a mech space wolves force instead of something that is unique to space wolves.

So I heard from a friend that terminators cannot go into drop pods. But acording to SW rules. They cannot deep strike unless they and the rest of the army is in drop pods.

So does that mean I cannot have vehicles of any kind but I can put SW terminators into Drop Pods?

That is the old 3rd ed rules, I could not find anthing like that in the new one.

SW Terminators cannot teleport. They can, however, ride in Drop Pods.

willydstyle wrote:It's not that they can't do mech well. It's just that SMs do mech better, using their rhinos as bunkers for multi-meltas, and cheaper TH/SS terms in land raiders.

If another codex does mech better, why build a mech space wolves force instead of something that is unique to space wolves.

I still don't understand this rational. Space Wolves mech is just different then Space Marine mech. Grey Hunters in Rhinos are the most valid troop option in the codex, with two Meltaguns that can fire out of the top hatch, and if they are aggressively placed and loose their transport, they can take a charge.

Logan Grimnar riding with some Wolf Guard in a LRC is an excellent choice. So is Ragnar in almost any unit in an LRC.

Space Wolf mech can even serve to protect such things as Thunderwolf Cav, Lone Wolfs, and Beast Heavy Iron Priest units.

SW Terminators cannot teleport. They can, however, ride in Drop Pods.

Which is actually a pretty interesting option, and another thing that makes the SW style different then standard marines.

Meh. I'm still going with an all Pod/Dread list (not sure how this is going to work, because Bjorn can't take a Pod...). Plasma GH go in cover, melta/flamer GH go up front.

WG drop in and smash face with Logan and Ulrik.

Njal and a shooty WG Terminator squad lead the GHs in the shooting phase.

I checked the drop pod option for Bjorn this morning, it's a shame, because if I where playing Space Wolves, I would want to field Bjorn, but it's really hard to find a good build with him.

Venerable Dreads can still take the Sage, so if you use them to support your Grey Hunter squads. You can keep them from Running.

Building off your idea, here is what I would do in roughly 2000 points with an all drop SW army.

-HQ-

Njal in Terminator Armor

Rune Priest in Terminator Armor w/ JoWW, Tempest

-Elites-

5 Wolf Guard Terminators in Drop Pod

Ven, Dread in Drop Pod

Ven. Dread in Drop Pod

-Troops-

8 Grey Hunters w/ Melta, Powerfist in Drop Pod

8 Grey Hunters w/ Melta, Powerfist in Drop Pod

10 Grey Hunters w/ 2 Meltas, Powerfist in Drop Pod



Hopefully that fits in 2000 points. Rune Priests ride with the Grey Hunters. Ven Dreads and Njal's GH are in your first wave that you put in the center of the table deploying behind the drop pods. Then the rest of the army comes in reacting to your opponent. The army plays by using the Drop Pods as cover and counter assaulting as necessary to maintain the objectives you landed on. Between Njal's Tempest, and two difficult terrain powers, you should be able to play more proactively against your opponent. Terminators assault wherever the Grey Hunters are caught in assault. Grey Hunters need the Powerfist to break them out of more deadly close combat.

Drop Pod Lists like this fail to massed template spam from IG, and massed tough CC like Orks and Tyranids. That's why I advocate mixed Drop Pods and Mech. Keep your scoring units in the protection of a tank, and use Drop Pod units like Dreads and Terminators to put pressure on your opponent.

The most effective list I have seen though has been Multiple Lone Wolfs, Multiple ML Long Fangs, supporting a Mechanized Assault with Grey Hunters in Rhinos and Logan Grimnar in a Terminator Squad (that are now Troop choices) coming out of a Land Raider Crusader. Maybe a Second Crusader filled with Blood Claws and a Wolf Priest.

Space Wolves can do both mech and foot well and have a variety of builds for each. They can also do a cavalry army, which is rather unique. Space Marines can do mech and bikers well, but aren't as good with foot lists.

Neither Codex is really better than the other, they're just different.

Agreed.

IMHO, the differences between the composition of lists both codex put out, make a unit by unit comparison impossible.

I'm confused as to why SW can't do mech. To me they seem better then regular marines. Having combat squad to take a razorback is great, but to ride in a rhino, I would rather go with grey hunters.

Regarding the built in LD 9 for marines, SW can do it without too much of a sacrifice. Sure you lose the free second special weapon, but you can just as easily take the 5 point combi weapon for the wolf guard. Sure you get one shot, but how often are you shooting your special weapons more than once? The way I see it, you pay 8 points for that LD 9 in a space wolves army. Not to mention that you get a better and cheaper powerfist on that wolf guard when compared to the one you get with the squad.

It's not that SW can't do mech, it's just that they actually have non-mech builds which IMO at least can do better than their mech builds can.

Cheap and effective long fangs
+
thunderwolf cavalry

is a huge incentive to build a non-mechanized SW force.

If you use those units with some guys in rhinos, then the opponent's anti-tank weapons have an easy time of target priority, as do their anti-infantry weapons.

To maximize your list, you really should present your opponent with all AV units, or none.

To maximize your list, you really should present your opponent with all AV units, or none.

I agree in principle but I think there's a few other factors.

A rhino is only 35 points. So GHs in rhinos, even if they give the enemies anti-tank weaponry more options are still gonna add extra protection and movement, even if it is for less turns then in a full mech list. They will also provide more cover and LOS blocking options for your cav and foot elements for that crucial early game manuvering. Finally most things that will have range on the long fangs are the antitank weaponry -- so in a way target saturation is still maintained to a degree.

As far as SW mech, I agree it is a complete different animal from SM. SWs can be made to be more like mech csm but with better fast attack options and a different kind of psychic support. You can also make a much more viable razorback spam list then SMs, since 6 man GH squads are more viable then the tactical equivilent. Or go hybrid, more of a shootier version of the CSM mech lists.

I do agree that Wolves do a better razorback-oriented mech list.

I think that 5 grey hunters with a melta gun and mark of the wolfen, along with a power-fist wolf guard is a very solid troops choice.

Cheese Elemental wrote:SW Terminators cannot teleport. They can, however, ride in Drop Pods.

So I can put some of my stuff in drop pods and the rest arive in Rhino?