Tank hunter provides a bonus against a monolith?

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**abortedsoul**

Alright, if a BT Dreadnought lays into a Monolith with a Twin-Linked lascannon, does he get the bonus +1 for armor pen? The Necron books says no bonus dice, but then goes on to say only un-augmented strength, as if that were just a clarification. (Necron codex, pp21) I'm a bit confused.

**Gwar!**

Pick 1:

Yes/No/Maybe

Sadly, all 3 are correct. It's a really big mess.

However, if you go by the 2nd printing of the Necron codex which says to use S+D6 "no matter what", Tank Hunters does not add +1.

**Valkyrie**

I thought Tank Hunters gave you +1 on the damage chart?

**Kirasu**

Yes GW stealth changed the necron codex without any warning to the players..

So if the opponent is using the older codex tank hunters work.. if they're using the newer one then it doesnt work

Its really the only way to figure out which codex they have heh

**thebetter1**

Tank Hunters is an ability that lets you add 1 to any rolls to penetrate armor. I'm really not convinced that "no matter what" is sufficient to stop this. It does not reduce the armor nor does it add dice to the penetration roll.

**RobPro**

The second printing of the Necron codex makes it clear tank hunter does not apply. Also, see the 4th ed Necron FAQ where it specifically mentions tank hunter. I only make a reference to it because the 5th ed FAQ pretty much tells you to use both.

**thebetter1**

If the phrase "no matter what" is the only basis for this, then wouldn't that stop doubling strength from power fists and 2d6 penetration for melta bombs as well?

**Gwar!**

thebetter1 wrote:If the phrase "no matter what" is the only basis for this, then wouldn't that stop doubling strength from power fists and 2d6 penetration for melta bombs as well?

If the rule said "Unaugmented strength of the Model" then it would. However, it says "Unaugmented Strength of the Weapon".

What is the Unaugmented Strength of a Power fist? Twice the Strength of the model carrying it.

As for meltabombs, they Roll 8 (their Strength) + D6.

**thebetter1**

Gwar! wrote:
As for meltabombs, they Roll 8 (their Strength) + D6.

Since when is this an accepted fact? It gets debated quite a lot.

**Gwar!**

thebetter1 wrote:
Gwar! wrote:
As for meltabombs, they Roll 8 (their Strength) + D6.

Since when is this an accepted fact? It gets debated quite a lot.

Debate it all you want, I just report what the rules actually say. It's up to others to tie their panties in a Knot. I stopped caring long ago.

**Ridcully**

I think we can all agree 8+d6 is actually their strength, with the regular roll for penetration, so for penetration against a monolith they would roll 8+D6(their strength) + D6

What?

<_<

**Shas'O Dorian**

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1180146_Necrons_FAQ_2004-11_Edition.pdf

Necron F.A.Q. 4.0.1 says no.

**Webbe**

Gwar! wrote:As for meltabombs, they Roll 8 (their Strength) + D6.

No, melta bombs have no strength at all. Neither do Defensive, Assault or Krak grenades.
They have a set armour penetration that replace the normal D6 + Strength. For Melta Bombs thats 8+2D6.

So you basically have two rules conflicting eachother.
Living metal say 'use unaugmented strength and a single D6' but Melta Bombs say 'replace normal armour penetration with 8+2D6'.

**Demogerg**

Meltabombs do not add an extra D6, they just simply roll 2d6+8 for penetration, every other circumstance of 2d6 penetration is a case of "add an extra D6"

again, debateable with meltabombs.

**yakface**

Kirasu wrote:Yes GW stealth changed the necron codex without any warning to the players..

So if the opponent is using the older codex tank hunters work.. if they're using the newer one then it doesnt work

Its really the only way to figure out which codex they have heh

Yeah, they totally stealthed everyone by putting out the changes into the annual at the time as a cut-and-paste so you could actually put the new wording into your old codex.

How dare they keep it secret like that, they totally should have come to everyone's houses and pasted the new version in for you.

Seriously though. GW has done plenty of stealth reprints in the past, but this ain't one of those times.

**don_mondo**

Webbe wrote:
Gwar! wrote:As for meltabombs, they Roll 8 (their Strength) + D6.

No, melta bombs have no strength at all. Neither do Defensive, Assault or Krak grenades.
They have a set armour penetration that replace the normal D6 + Strength. For Melta Bombs thats 8+2D6.

So you basically have two rules conflicting eachother.
Living metal say 'use unaugmented strength and a single D6' but Melta Bombs say 'replace normal armour penetration with 8+2D6'.

If they have no strength, then all they get is ST 0 plus 1d6...........................

**lixulana**

well the precedent is set for something to get 2d6, see tyranid FAQ, the acid spores get 3+2d6 because they have a special rule for penetration not a strength roll.

**kirsanth**

lixulana wrote:well the precedent is set for something to get 2d6, see tyranid FAQ, the acid spores get 3+2d6 because they have a special rule for penetration not a strength roll.

Bona fide moot point.

Bio Acid "always" rolls 2d6+3.
Living Metal insists s+1d6 "no matter what".

Discuss with your opponent.
Or better yet, aim at some actual necrons - AP3 ftw.

**Ridcully**

"Always" is written in an FAQ and applies to how blast marker half strengths hits vehicles. It doesn't mean "always" no matter what rule you're up against. The monolith's living metal should trump it "no matter what" as written in its codex..

The eldar attack that spins tanks around would get an 'always' in their FAQ if they had written it as vaguely as the tyranid one.

**kirsanth**

See?

**thebetter1**

Shas'O Dorian wrote:http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1180146_Necrons_FAQ_2004-11_Edition.pdf

Necron F.A.Q. 4.0.1 says no.

This is no longer a valid rule, which also raises the question of why it didn't make it into the new FAQ.

There really are two perfectly valid sides to this argument. One is that melta bombs get 8 + 2d6, so Tank Hunters also gets +1. The other is that Tank Hunters gets nothing, so melta bombs only get d6. Which one of them seems more reasonable?

**Gwar!**

thebetter1 wrote:There really are two perfectly valid sides to this argument. One is that melta bombs get 8 + 2d6, so Tank Hunters also gets +1. The other is that Tank Hunters gets nothing, so melta bombs only get d6. Which one of them seems more reasonable?

Both are perfectly fine.

Don't pull "omg you are not reasonable" into rules discussions please.

**Lordhat**

thebetter1 wrote:
Shas'O Dorian wrote:http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1180146_Necrons_FAQ_2004-11_Edition.pdf

Necron F.A.Q. 4.0.1 says no.

This is no longer a valid rule, which also raises the question of why it didn't make it into the new FAQ.

I'd like to know what exactly invalidates the FAQ?

**Ridcully**

That it's an old FAQ. If we looked to old FAQs for rules, Monoliths would only be hit on a 6+ in combat because they're skimmers.

Gwar! plays that the strength of the meltabomb is 8, regardless of there being no explicit strength value listed. Just a formula of penetration.

The strength of a meltabomb is actually 2D6 + 8 and living metal allows it to roll an additional D6 on top of that

**Gwar!**

THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS!

Seriously, why can't GW Pay me in Cheetos and Sharpies and let me just re-write all the old codexes as a stopgap until they get around to a proper 5th ed rehaul :(

**Ridcully**

I don't see what this has to do with wood elves.

**Harkainos**

Ridcully wrote:I don't see what this has to do with wood elves.

I thought that as well.

**abortedsoul**

Wow, what a can of worms.