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So the idea that I'm messing around with is using the IG codex to model a Witchhunter's force. I'm using a lot of proxies right now to play it and test it out, here's the basic list. (I'll list any modelling quirks as we go.)

**HQ**

Inquisitor Lord 119
3 Acolytes
Divine Pronouncement
Psychic Hood

CCS 250
Creed (Uriah Jacobus)
LC, Vox, Astropath (Blind Seer Model), Chim
Extra models are random Zealots


**Elites**
Marbo 65
(Callidus model. She has the pistol and 'poisoned blade' down pat.)


**Troops**
Battle Sisters x10 214
Vet, MB, Book, MG, HF
Rhino S, EA

Battle Sisters x10 214
Vet, MB, Book, MG, HF
Rhino S, EA


Infantry Platoon 220
CCS, LasC, Chim
IS, AutoC, Vox, PW
IS, Autoc, PW
(All using Necromunda Redemptionists)

Vet Squad 200
3 MG
Demolitions
Chim, EA
('Spartan' conversions I've been working on with Crest Helms and Round shields)

**FA**
Vendetta 130

Valkyrie 130
ML, Missile Pods

Valkyrie 130
ML, Missile Pods

(Imagine the Angelic theme that can be incorporated here. I may have to scratch build or heavily convert these to incorporate 'feathered' wings)


**Heavy**
Manticore 160
Manticore 160
(I imagine beefed up exorcist type conversions for these.)

Total: 1992

Probably Blob the AC Inf Squads to take advantage of orders.

Use Inq to force FB on charging squads that don't get shot to death.

Use Valks for standard alpha strike with Creed/Vet Combo and/or as moving transports for Sisters (Move 12-18, fire defensive weapons and/or MLs). Rhinos can either carry the girls in the appropriate scenarios or work as bunkers or walls.

Anti Tank is covered with Short Range Melta/MB on SIsters, Long Range Vendetta Support, Long Range Manticore Support, LasCs with Bring it Down on the CCS's. Light armor with ACs and MultiLasers. Horde is Manticores and Torrent of Fire from Sisters, Chimeras.

Against Assaulty, I can use a wall of Chim, Rhinos to block Access and Castle up, dropping templates. Inq to force fallback.
Against Gunline, I can alpha strike and Fly the girls/vets up their faces.


What do you think?

EDIT: Incorporated proper name changes for Valk vs Vendetta. Redid Inq instead of Cannoness and changed loadout on Valks.

I think you might make more use out of an Inquisitor than a Cannoness in this type of list.

You're mainly gunline with the option to fast attack against other gunlines, the chances your Cannoness is going to be useful besides the LD 10 stubborn check is very low. LD 9 books work well enough. It also depends on what you're playing against, if you play against non psykers, it doesn't help as much. If you're looking for balance though, I think you need one.

I'd take an Inquisitor Lord with something like this

Inquisitor Lord - 150
Psychic Hood, Divine Pronouncement
Acolyte x 3
Power Armor

I know Divine Pronouncement is pricey but it will keep a ton of things off your gunline.'

If you're using the power against space marines, it makes them take a LD check on 6. If you're against Guardsmen they test on 5.

Also, it's such a small target, most people won't even shoot at it when you've got him in cover with a 3+ save

I checked the Inq Lord and it comes out to 119 with Psy Hood, Divine Pronouncement and 3 Acolytes (Power Armor is free)

Not a bad mix.

Can you take two allies? (DH and WH?)

If so, I could go a similar route and take an:
Inq Lord
2 Mystics
Acolyte
Tarot
Psy Hood
for 100 pts.

That balances forcing morale checks versus dropping fire into DS/Daemons.

I hadn't thought about Div Pro before though and that looks nice.

I'm also mildly concerned about low model count. Anyone think I have too few troops on the board?

You can't take a Daemon Hunters Inquisitor when you have WH and IG. Only 1 Ally per list. That's why I offered the WH Inquisitor option, although It's not as good as the Inq Lord with the Mystics, it's one of the best, cheapest and most effective options for WH I think. You could fit it in with dropping Marbo, even though I think he's a great unit, I think unless you get a direct hit with his demo charge, that he doesn't make up his point value. Also, I had the power armor listed under the Acolytes, It's not free for them, but it is for the Lord. It's a little expensive to give them power armor though, you could probably just run them stock now that I think about it.

Of course it's all about preference, but I figured I'd give my 2 cents.

You've got 5 troops which is a good amount for 2k point value even though 3 of your troops have a 5+ and 2 have a 3+ it's a good enough mix, you've just got to protect your troops more and make sure they're in some kind of cover.

Kreedos wrote:You can't take a Daemon Hunters Inquisitor when you have WH and IG. Only 1 Ally per list. That's why I offered the WH Inquisitor option, although It's not as good as the Inq Lord with the Mystics, it's one of the best, cheapest and most effective options for WH I think. You could fit it in with dropping Marbo, even though I think he's a great unit, I think unless you get a direct hit with his demo charge, that he doesn't make up his point value. Also, I had the power armor listed under the Acolytes, It's not free for them, but it is for the Lord. It's a little expensive to give them power armor though, you could probably just run them stock now that I think about it.

You've got 5 troops which is a good amount for 2k point value even though 3 of your troops have a 5+ and 2 have a 3+ it's a good enough mix, you've just got to protect your troops more and make sure they're in some kind of cover.

Well, in that case, I really like the Inq Lord. Just have to shuffle three points. It felt like cherry picking with a DH anyways.

From a survivability standpoint, I think I have 8 Transports and 8 units, if I need to bunker up. That creates cover in a way.

Thanks for giving it a look!

I have to say I really dislike your Valkyrie/Vendetta loadouts.

Hellstrikes are not worth it. They are not blast, merely ordnance, and it is one shot at BS3 (think hunter-killer missile). No thank you.

The lascannon upgrade costs a ridiculous 15 points and doesn't even give you a twin-linked lascannon. I would recommend either taking Vendettas (3 twin-linked lascannons for 130 points) for anti-mech or Valkyries with MRP (1 Multilaser and 2 Multiple Rocket pods for 130 points) for anti-horde. Like this:

Vendetta +130
Vendetta +130
Valkyrie + MRP +130

That will save you 15 points and give you 6 twin-linked lascannons, 1 multilaser and 2 multiple rocket pods. Trade a Vendetta for a Valk + MRP if you think you have enough anti-tank already.

DoW

DogOfWar wrote:I have to say I really dislike your Valkyrie/Vendetta loadouts.

Thanks for the feedback. I think my thought was I wanted versatile platforms for delivering girls/vets rather than gun platforms. I love the missile pods since their defensive and with fast skimmer I can fire them, the lasc and still move as far as a normal transport, etc.

For some reason, I thought the Hellstrike were Blast as well. Suckage.

I think that I have too many transports in my army (although they make a nice wall), so perhaps more shooty is the way to go.

Maybe 2 Valk with MRP/ML and 1 Vendetta with 3TLL. Drops my transports down to 7, but increases my AT and my Anti-Transport (2 more ML). My loadout was 405, the proposed is 390. Save me 15 points!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edited the list above to incorporate suggestions.

pretre wrote:

DogOfWar wrote:I have to say I really dislike your Valkyrie/Vendetta loadouts.

Thanks for the feedback. I think my thought was I wanted versatile platforms for delivering girls/vets rather than gun platforms. I love the missile pods since their defensive and with fast skimmer I can fire them, the lasc and still move as far as a normal transport, etc.

For some reason, I thought the Hellstrike were Blast as well. Suckage.

I think that I have too many transports in my army (although they make a nice wall), so perhaps more shooty is the way to go.

Maybe 2 Valk with MRP/ML and 1 Vendetta with 3TLL. Drops my transports down to 7, but increases my AT and my Anti-Transport (2 more ML). My loadout was 405, the proposed is 390. Save me 15 points!

Glad to help!

I thought the Hellstrike was blast originally as well, which is a huge disappointment. I was loving the large blast AP3 goodness

I think I just have a hatred of Lascannons at BS3 since they NEVER seem to hit for me. I've given up putting them on my Russes but that's just a personal preference. They do great on Vendettas and in HWS if you get them a 'Bring it Down!' order since twin-linked BS3 is actually slightly better than Marine BS4. This being said, the majority of my anti-tank is melta or Manticore/Medusa so take it with a grain of salt.

I too am a fan of the Multiple Rocket Pods, they're punishment for any horde ar0my and can even force enough saves to make MEQ worry slightly. S4 isn't wonderful, but you get two blasts and that'll usually do the trick. I definitely agree that the multi-laser is nothing to sneeze at either, I've popped quite a few transports with them. Much better, imo, than hoping for that 50/50 chance on your single lascannon.

Oh and you do know the Vendetta is a transport as well, right?

DoW

DogOfWar wrote:
Oh and you do know the Vendetta is a transport as well, right?

DoW

OWWW. You just blew my mind. (Pages through his codex. Daaaamn.) Why was I assuming it wasn't? Craaaaaaap. That changes some things.

+10 Internets for DoW

Hope this doesn't count as necro, but I looked up the Witch Hunter's FAQ and it shows that you can take WH and DH as allies.

Q. Can Daemonhunters be taken as allies in an
army that also has Witch Hunter allies?
A. Yes.

Should I swap out the WH Inq for the good ol' DH Inq with Tarot, Psy Hood and Mystics?

You're misreading that faq. They're refering to Daemonhunters Allies as an army and Witch Hunter allies as an army, they're not refering to pairing them with a third army. Basically they're saying you can use Daemonhunters and Witchhunters together.

I can't wait to see how well the Inquisitorial armies fare when they're used to outflank. I'm imagining cries of "URIAAAAAAAAAAH!!".

Kreedos wrote:You're misreading that faq. They're refering to Daemonhunters Allies as an army and Witch Hunter allies as an army, they're not refering to pairing them with a third army. Basically they're saying you can use Daemonhunters and Witchhunters together.

Pretty sure I'm not. I could be wrong, but I'll bold the important parts.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1180142_Witch_Hunters_FAQ_2004-08_5th_Edition.pdf

Q. If an army has Daemonhunters or Witch
Hunters allies, can it take any other type of
allies?
A. No, unless these are also Inquisitorial units, or
unless they are members of a separate
Detachment. This is stated in Codex: Witch
Hunters, and has been added to the Allies box on
page 21 of Codex: Daemonhunters for its second
print run.

Q. Can Daemonhunters be taken as allies in an
army that also has Witch Hunter allies?
A. Yes.

Based on the quotes, it sounds like they are talking about using WH as allies in an army. Contrast the language where at the beginning of the faq it says 'A Witch Hunters Army'.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Owain wrote:I can't wait to see how well the Inquisitorial armies fare when they're used to outflank. I'm imagining cries of "URIAAAAAAAAAAH!!".

Outflanking unit of sisters in rhino should be hilarious. Or Outflanking sisters in a Valkyrie.

Almost makes me want to take a few units of Zealots to outflank 20+ crazy guys with Eviscerators.

As for the DH Inq, I was thinking Inq, 2 Mystics, Hood and Tarot with a Warrior w/HB = 118

I changed this up a little bit. Had some of my points off, so I moved things around.

SOBx2 428
10 Sisters
HF/MG
MB/Vet/Book
Rhino/EA

Vet 200
MGx3
Demo
Chim
EA

Marbo 65

Vendetta 130
Valkyrie 130
MRP
Valkyrie 130
MRP

Manticore 160
Manticore 160

CCS 250
Creed
LasC
Vox
Astro
Chim

PCS w/ LasC 50
IS w/ AutoC, PW, Vox 75
IS w/ AutoC, PW, Commissar 105

Inq Lord w/ PsyH, PsyCannon, 2 Mystics, 1 Vet Guardsman 117

2000 Even.

I dropped a Chim from the PCS and removed EA from the CCS Chim to get a commissar for Stubborn and a Inq Lord with Mystics, Psyc and Targeter (Vet G).

I'm wondering about the Astropath right now. 30 points is a lot in a list already bloated with extra schtuff.

Thoughts?

IG FAQ wrote:Q. Can Daemonhunters be taken as allies in an army that also has Witch Hunter allies?
A. Yes.

How puzzling! It makes very little sense.

IG FAQ wrote:Q. If an army has Daemonhunters or Witch Hunters allies, can it take any other type of
allies?
A. No, unless these are also Inquisitorial units, or unless they are members of a separate Detachment. This is stated in Codex: Witch Hunters, and has been added to the Allies box on page 21 of Codex: Daemonhunters for its second print run.

This is more in line with what you'd expect. Seems like a reference to the rule that you cannot take SM and IG at the same time. What does it mean "separate attachment"?

I agree that it doesn't make sense, but that's the way they write!

Detachments are separate force orgs. You can't use separate force orgs in normal games.

Sorry for being dense, but what is the separate force org other than an Inquisitorial ally in this circumstance?

Inquisitorial allies actually are part of your org.

So let's say you take a Space Marine Army.

You take a Force Commander and Two Tac Squads. That's one HQ and Two troops of your total allotment of 2 HQ and 6 troops.

If you took an Inq Lord and two squads of Inq Storm Troopers, you would be up to 2 HQs (of 2 possible) and 4 of 6 possible troops.


Detachments mean you field two separate armies. So I would have two separate force organizations, one with 1 HQ and two troops and another with 1 HQ and two troops.

Very cool idea for the having angelic-looking valkyries.
My SoB happen to be a custom order with the word 'valkyrie' in their name.
Can't comment much outside of that as I'm unfamiliar with the IG.

Manchu wrote:

IG FAQ wrote:Q. If an army has Daemonhunters or Witch Hunters allies, can it take any other type of
allies?
A. No, unless these are also Inquisitorial units, or unless they are members of a separate Detachment. This is stated in Codex: Witch Hunters, and has been added to the Allies box on page 21 of Codex: Daemonhunters for its second print run.

This is more in line with what you'd expect. Seems like a reference to the rule that you cannot take SM and IG at the same time. What does it mean "separate attachment"?

At the time the FAQ was written, it was possible to have allied Kroot Mercenaries. This essentially says that, if you take either brand of Inquisition troops as allies, you can't have other allies except for the other brand of Inquisition troops.

That's what I figured. Thanks!

Please start a painting blog when you start the army. Painting ideas sound really good.

A few suggestions for the list though.

Get Smoke launchers for your Sisters of Battle Squad Rhinos they give you a cover save for 1 turn which is key to making it to objectives. Possibly drop Melta bombs. The usual way to run Sisters squads is 10 Sisters of Battle, Veteran Superior with Book, Melta Gun, Heavy Flamer in a Rhino with Extra Armor and Smoke Launchers for 209 points. Some people add a Search Light for 1 point for Dawn of War missions.

Extra armor is not worth it for Chimeras at the new inflated cost. Drop it.

Use the Chimera for your Inquisitor and put the Veterans with demolitions in a Valkyrie so they can scout move and first turn assault with melta bombs if you get first turn.

Creed really is not worth the points unless you are outflanking something nasty like 2-3 Demolishers or Bainwolves and have 3 or 4 units of imperial guard troops to order around to maximize the use of his 4 orders. You can not order Inquisition units as the new IG FAQ says. Drop Creed

Put some Melta guns in the command squad just in case vehicles get close.

Platoon Command squad is best used in a Chimera with 4 Flamers. BS 3 las cannons are underwelming unless you can twin link them. Instead of the Las Cannon get the Platoon Command 4 Flamers and use some of the points from droping Creed to get them a Chimera.

If you have the points give las cannons to the infantry squads because if you combine squads you can issue the bring it down order to them at leadership 9 because of the commisar and are less likely to fail.

Instead of a Veteran Guardsman give the Inquisitor Squad a Sage to make the Inquisitor BS5 for firing the Psycannon. Put the Inquisitor inside the Veteran Squad Chimera for protection and put the Veterans inside a Valkyrie.

Equip your Chimeras with Multi Laser and Heavy Flamer only. Skip Extra Armor. Multi Laser gives you a decent ranged weapon with 3 shots that can glance or damage rhinos and a heavy flamer is good for anti hordes. Extra Armor is not worth the points for 1 result on the table when you are not transporting a high cost assault unit.

Avariel wrote:Please start a painting blog when you start the army. Painting ideas sound really good.

Most are already painted. The hard part will be finding money for vendettas.

Avariel wrote:
The usual way to run Sisters squads is 10 Sisters of Battle, Veteran Superior with Book, Melta Gun, Heavy Flamer in a Rhino with Extra Armor and Smoke Launchers for 209 points.

Exactly what I proposed except mine have 5 points extra (214) for Melta Bomb on the vet.

Avariel wrote:
Extra armor is not worth it for Chimeras at the new inflated cost. Drop it.

I left it off the static Chimera, but was thinking of keeping it on the other. As I plan on using it now for my Inq potentially, I can see the lack of use for the EA.

Avariel wrote:
Use the Chimera for your Inquisitor and put the Veterans with demolitions in a Valkyrie so they can scout move and first turn assault with melta bombs if you get first turn.

Vets can't do the first turn assault/scout move without Creed as he can give them scouts.

Avariel wrote:
Creed really is not worth the points unless you are outflanking something nasty like 2-3 Demolishers or Bainwolves and have 3 or 4 units of imperial guard troops to order around to maximize the use of his 4 orders. You can not order Inquisition units as the new IG FAQ says. Drop Creed

My thoughts on Creed.
1) Scouts: Makes Vet alpha strike possible.
2) Anti-Assault: I have little anti assault, but 'For the honor of...' makes true anti-assault possible
3) Four orders: I have one blob (or two small infantry), two LasC (which we can discuss below). That's either the perfect number of orders (if no blob) or 1 extra. That gives me Bring it Down for everyone that has a Heavy Weapon. Or other options as I need. I could do the same with a lesser CCS though and planning (smaller radius).

Avariel wrote:
Put some Melta guns in the command squad just in case vehicles get close.

Good idea! I should be able to get points out of the extra armor on the Chim.

Avariel wrote:
Platoon Command squad is best used in a Chimera with 4 Flamers. BS 3 las cannons are underwelming unless you can twin link them. Instead of the Las Cannon get the Platoon Command 4 Flamers and use some of the points from droping Creed to get them a Chimera.

I get where you're coming from, but do you think I have enough flame? (Sisters, etc?) My anti-horde is pretty potent. The Lascannon will be twinlinked by BID everyturn from the CCS.

Avariel wrote:
If you have the points give las cannons to the infantry squads because if you combine squads you can issue the bring it down order to them at leadership 9 because of the commisar and are less likely to fail.

I like the AutoC for light transports. Right now I have the CCS Lasc, PCS Lasc and 2x 3 TL Lasc on Vendettas. That's a basically (with orders) 8 TL Lascannons. Is that enough?

Avariel wrote:
Instead of a Veteran Guardsman give the Inquisitor Squad a Sage to make the Inquisitor BS5 for firing the Psycannon. Put the Inquisitor inside the Veteran Squad Chimera for protection and put the Veterans inside a Valkyrie.

Not sure why I didn't think of the Sage! Great idea. And the plan was to use the Vet Chim since they will (most missions) be in the Valk.

Avariel wrote:
Equip your Chimeras with Multi Laser and Heavy Flamer only. Skip Extra Armor. Multi Laser gives you a decent ranged weapon with 3 shots that can glance or damage rhinos and a heavy flamer is good for anti hordes. Extra Armor is not worth the points for 1 result on the table when you are not transporting a high cost assault unit.

Heavy flamer is so fluffy too! Good idea


Thanks for all the feedback, let me update the list a bit and certainly tell me if I'm off-base on Creed. He seems like a Sacred Cow to me right now and I would like feedback on whether he will do what I need him to do (Scout/Anti-Assault).

New List (Now with 1 more Meltagun (CCS) and no Extra Armor)

SOBx2 428
10 Sisters
HF/MG
MB/Vet/Book
Rhino/EA

Vet 185
MGx3
Demo
Chim (ML/HF)


Marbo 65

Vendetta 130
Valkyrie 130
MRP
Valkyrie 130
MRP

Manticore 160
Manticore 160

CCS 255
Creed
LasC
MeltaG
Vox
Astro
Chim (ML/HB)

PCS w/ LasC 50
IS w/ AutoC, PW, Vox 75
IS w/ AutoC, PW, Commissar 105

Inq Lord w/ PsyH, PsyCannon, 2 Mystics, Sage 117

1995 Even.