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Tournament coming up... (mechanicon)
need to build a good 1850 list, better than my old one. Here's what i'm thinking -

went 2-2-1 at mechanicon in PA
wins vs dark eldar and tyrannids
losses vs mech eldar and vulkan raider spam
draw vs guard infantry heavy

V3.2 edited 11/12/09

HQ- Chaplain w/ melta bombs 105 pts
HQ- Librarian (null zone + avenger) 100 pts

Elite- 5 man assault terminator squad (3x hammer 2x claw) - 200 pts
Elite- Venerable Dreadnought (twin linked autocannon) - 175 pts

Troops- 5 man tac squad in razorback (twin linked assault cannon) - 165
Troops- 10 man tac squad in rhino (melta + multimelta) - 210 pts
Troops- 10 man tac squad in rhino (melta + multimelta) - 210 pts

Fast- 3x MM/HF speeders - 210 pts

Heavy- Predator (2x LC+AC) - 120 pts
Heavy- Predator (2x LC+AC) - 120 pts
Heavy- Land Raider Redeemer (w/ multimelta) - 260 pts

Honestly, I think you will run into some problems with this list. You have almost no long range firepower. If you switched the two multimeltas out for missile launchers, you would double the number of targets you can shoot at between 37" and 48". GoI on the Librarian is a bit of a gamble without any locator beacons. Probably get more mileage out of Avenger for that AP3 template against marines.

My biggest concern is how you plan on using the Sternguard. If you hold them back and use them for a counter attack, you'll probably do alright. If you try to rush them forward to maximize the number of turns you can fire the bolters, you'll probably get one good round of fire in and then lose over 400 points of your army to return fire. The dreads can't keep pace and if you run the Rhinos forward, you lose alot of long range firepower.

My suggestion would be to drop the Sternguard and replace them with another tactical squad and either a Landspeeder or Attack Bike squadron for a little more firepower. If you are really worried about assaults, 5 assault marines with dual flamers and powerfist can handle the job nicely.

I share the concerns pointed out by PLeader.
I'd possibly switch to a Vulcan list.

build 2.0

HQ- Librarian (null zone/ avenger)

Elite- Ven dread (plasma cannon) - 175
Elite- Ven dread (TL autocannon) - 175

Troop- 5 man tac squad in razorback (TLLC) - 165
Troop- 10 man tac in rhino (melta/multimelta/fist) - 235
Troop- 10 man tac in rhino (melta/multimelta/fist) - 235
Troop- 10 man tac in rhino (plasma gun/ plasma cannon) - 220

Fast- 2x land speeder typhoon - 180

Heavy- Vindicator w/ dozer - 120
Heavy- Predator (2xLC+AC) - 120
Heavy- Predator (2xLC+AC) - 120

I like it Horst. The only change I'd make is a personal preference one and swap out the Tac squad multimeltas for missile launchers. Gives you the option to squad down and deploy to krak missiles while holding home quarter objectives and rushing the other two Rhinos forward in tandem. Otherwise I think its alot more balanced than the first version and the typhoons are a nice addition for long range punch.

in my experience, the short range punch of a multimelta is worth much more to me than a long range missile shot... besides, how many guys out there use drop pods with dreads, land raiders, or falcons... all vehicles that get up close and personal to me real fast. the missiles are noticably better against horde (frag blasts) but still, i'll take the trade off that against armored enemies i'll be better off.

the only thing i'm debating now is do I take 2 ven dreads, or 3 regular dreads... the ven dreads are about twice as survivable as normal dreads, (often more than that depending on the dice), so 3 dreads isn't any more damage resistant, but 3 would put out an additional heavy weapon shot. I'm not sure if that would be better. Also, i'd have to buy another dread, so thats a definite negative.

48" weapons -
4 missile launchers
3 autocannons (1 twin linked)
5 lascannons (1 twin linked)

36" weapons-
2 plasma cannons
2 heavy bolters

24" weapons
plasma gun
2 multimelta

my list already has a definite focus on extreme range weapons (more than the other 2 categories combined)

ended up running this list at a local tournament....

HQ- Chaplain

Elite- 5 assault terminators in a raider (3x hammer 2x claw)

Elite- Venerable dread with plasma cannon

Elite- Venerable dread with twin linked autocannon

Troop- 10 man tac squad (melta, multimelta, fist) - 235 pts

Troop- 10 man tac squad (plasma cannon, plasma gun, melta bomb) - 235 pts

Troop- 5 man tac squad in razorback - 130 pts

Heavy- Predator (2x LC+AC)-120 pts

Heavy- Predator (2x LC+AC)-120 pts

Heavy- Vindicator (2x LC+AC) - 120 pts


only change i'm thinking of making is dropping the vindicator for a librarian to ride in the terminator, and provide null zone to the terminator squad. then, use the extra 20 points to probably upgrade the tac squad's heavy weapons to lascannons.... they need some more range. they normally just sit back and hold objectives.




edit- forgot to say how I did at my local tourney... I went 3-0 with this list.

played against an eldar player using this list -
eldrad
avatar
3x squads dire avengers
1 squad dark reapers
1 squad banshees
1 squad fire dragons in falcon
1 squadron of 3 war walkers with missile launchers

This game wasn't really close, I pretty much thrashed him.


round 2, I played against this list of imperial guard-
creed, command squad with 3 meltas
5 ogryns in a chimera
squad of vets in a chimera (3 melta guns)
2 infantry squads with flamers
2 infantry squads with lascannons and snipers
command squad with meltas
2 banewolfs
2 russes (1 executioner, 1 normal)
1 deathstrike launcher

again, pretty much thrashed him.


round 3 was against a good local ork player. his list was-
warp'ead
warboss in mega armor
mega nobz in a battle wagon
3 squads truck boyz
1 30 man mob of shoota boyz
tankbustas in looted wagon
burna boyz in looted wagon

this was a pretty close game actually, my land raider immobilized itself, giving him a free killpoint and preventing me from kicking the crap out of his forces :(

The last list looks decent and you seem to be doing well with it. Librarians definitely have their uses but I would say the vindicator may do more for you...if anything I would take a librarian over a chaplain (even though I love my terminator chaplain model). One thing I would also consider is downgrading the venerable status of the dreads and filling out that 5 man tac squad. I don't have my codex handy but I think you can go with ironclads and save 60 points which would be enough and you get an extra point of armor.

the main strength of the venerables is that I force the opponent to re-roll damage, and their WS of 5. This means that even bloodthirsters will have a tough time against them... I can rely on them to take down monstrous creatures, where a normal dread would fail to a lucky penetrating strike.

Also, the tournament is in a week, and I have 2 venerable dreads, not 2 ironclads... :(

I dunno, I have alot of practice with this style list, maybe I should just leave well enough alone and keep my list as is.

It should be noted my chappy is not in terminator armor... I don't really think its worth the extra points to remove a power weapon attack from him ><

HQ- Chaplain

Elite- 5 assault terminators in a raider (3x hammer 2x claw)

Elite- Venerable dread with plasma cannon

Elite- Venerable dread with twin linked autocannon

Troop- 10 man tac squad (melta, multimelta, fist) - 235 pts

Troop- 10 man tac squad (plasma cannon, plasma gun, melta bomb) - 235 pts

Troop- 5 man tac squad in razorback - 130 pts

Heavy- Predator (2x LC+AC)-120 pts

Heavy- Predator (2x LC+AC)-120 pts

Heavy- Vindicator (2x LC+AC) - 120 pts

In tournaments, you will face lots of psykers these days.
I'd consider a Librarian in terminator armor; the Chaplain should go with the Termies if he stays.

I have no problems swapping a librarian for the chaplain... I'd leave him in power armor and throw him in the razorback with the small tac squad. give him null zone + avenger... give that little squad a purpose (act as his bodyguard)

bump... edited the list to include lysander. he's a beast... (see list in first post)

the plan against armor is to use the lascannons to immobilize it (I have 7 lascannons, 3 of which are twin linked), and then assault it with lysander, whos strength 10 melta hammer should take care of any land raiders. if I can even stop the enemy armor from moving for 1 turn, lysander can get in 4 free hits, which should annihilate any vehicles in the game.

I have the tactical squads in anti-horde configuration... packing 2x flamer templates each, they can probably deal with a 30 man unit of boyz each like this (given a few turns of shooting, maybe some support from one of the dreads in close combat).

The librarian, while nice, is only a necessity against chaos daemons, and they are already unpredictable. the deadliest variety of chaos daemons is the crusher heavy list, and my ven dreads can stop the crushers already. Librarians are also more of a liability against eldar opponents, who simply have their way with him by forcing his head to explode.

Well, if you field Lysander then I'd consider normal Termies that benefit from his bolter-drill.

Well...Lysander is sort of a contradiction.
You want him in combat, but if he focuses on bolter-drill on most weapons, he won't be going there.

Now... with Tactical Dreads, it's nice to have have the bonus along the way to combat, but that generally means they are not 'decent' at getting into combat.

In addition, with a tactical termy squad, his combat ability is sort of moot, and they don't have the same kind of durability as Assault termies as you'd think he'd look better in.

He can act as a 'fist' for a Sternguard/Dev/whatever bolter squad, but that's a lot of points for that.

/shrug. I think Lysander is cool, almost what Typhus should look like, but I think he should be more viewed as a combat monster, while bolter-drill should be..............................part of Chapter Tactics IMO. Or at least he grants it to a single squad that he 'trained personally' or something like that.

bolter drill is great and all, but because lysander is a terminator, he can only be in a transport with other terminators... meaning he's only really useful with tactical terminators... and the majority of the points you pay for him go to his awesome CC statline, which is without equal in the SM codex.

I think i'm going to keep him with the assault terminators, they just are much more durable in CC than normal terminators, and 10 tl bolter shots isn't worth that durability, imo.

rethought everything again, decided that a librarian + chaplain was a better buy for 200 points... null zone will give me almost an instant win vs daemons, and the chaplain bonus is almost as good as having lysander in the first round of combat. also, some units can reduce the crap out of my leadership, and having them fearless is always good. (some things ignore stubborn)

so yea... list is finalized, all packed up, and i'm getting ready for bed now

HQ- Chaplain w/ melta bombs 105 pts
HQ- Librarian (null zone + avenger) 100 pts

Elite- 5 man assault terminator squad (3x hammer 2x fist) - 200 pts
Elite- Venerable Dreadnought (plasma cannon) - 175 pts
Elite- Venerable Dreadnought (twin linked autocannon) - 175 pts

Troops- 5 man tac squad in razorback (twin linked assault cannon) - 165
Troops- 10 man tac squad in rhino (flamer+missile launcher+combi-flamer) - 215 pts
Troops- 10 man tac squad in rhino (flamer+multimelta+combi-flamer) - 215 pts

Heavy- Predator (2x LC+AC) - 120 pts
Heavy- Predator (2x LC+AC) - 120 pts
Heavy- Land Raider (multimelta) - 260 pts

Looks much better.
These HQ's bring more synergy into your army.

So far, i'm in a 3 way tie for second, we all trail the first place by 2 points... (very close)

my first game, I played mech eldar... eldrad + yriel list. By the end of the second turn, he managed to destroy all of my heavy supports.. So I was without lascannons... I still managed to hold it to a minor loss...1 obj - 0 objs out of 5 possible. I'd have won the game if it ended on turn 5, but managed to not roll a single hit out of 9 thunder hammer swings that were re-rollable if failed to hit on his prism, which contested my objective holdings.

second game was against a nid player. 2 fexes, 1 tyrant, 3 squads of gaunts, 3 squads of stealers, a zoan, and a large warrior squad. I tabled him, lost a combat squad in doing so. massacre win...

the 3rd game was against a dark eldar player. 2 objectives, hold both to get a massacre win. I place my objective as close to the enemy objective as possible, and hold everything in reserves. I come on turn 2, vaporize an entire squad of witches with bolter/flamer fire. we trade shots for a few turns, as I sneak a tactical squad up the flank in a rhino, covered by an empty rhino and another tac squad in a razorback. eventually, I reach his objective, my librarian aids my 10 man tac squad to take it from him, and I hold both. The highlight of this game was my other tac squad shooting down the archon's raider, then assaulting the archon + incubi, and holding them in combat for 3 assault phases, long enough for my terminators to come in from reserve and rescue them. 4 members of the squad survived to hold my home objective (my backup plan if they all died was to retreat the razorback tac squad, who was no longer needed at the front lines now that the other tac had claimed their objective)