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Hey folks.
I wrote a new Tyranid list last week or so ago. I have played a few games with it & it's pretty fun & quite tough.
I've gone for a mix between a swarm & a Nidzilla list. I figure i might as well get used to moving loads of models as the new codex is apparently gonna lean that way.
If you get a minute feel free to comment.
Cheers.

HQ
Tyrant - En Sense - Toxin Sac's - Devourers X2 - Warp Field
Flyrant - Wings - Talons X2 - Toxin Sac's - Toxic Miasma - Warp Field - Adrenal (WS)

ELITES
Boomfex - Barbed Strangler - Talons
Boomfex - Barbed Strangler - Talons
Devilfex - Devourers X2 - Enhanced Sense (Devilfex/Dakkafex. Whatever you wanna call it)

TROOPS
X16 Gaunts - Fleshborers
X16 Gaunts - Fleshborers
X8 Genestealers - Feeder Tendrils
X8 Genestealers - Feeder Tendrils

HEAVY
Carnifex - Toxic Miasma - Talons X2 - Reinforced - Extended Carapace - Adrenal (WS) - Adrenal (I)
X3 Zoanthropes - Warp Blast - Synapse

I've played 3 games with the list so far (1 Annihilation & 2 Capture & control) & they have all been a close draw.
I'm not trying to win any medals or anything. It's just a fun list.
Comments welcome.

I like it. Personally I'd drop 1 Fex and some Stealers for another big unit of Gaunts, since thats the way it'll soon lean. Otherwise it looks solid.
Cam

I've played against this list. Its pretty tuogh and a lot of models.

Honestly, I don't think it possibly needs anything really. Only one thing though, zoanthropes, perhaps I go for them first but I don't see you using them much. Only use is synapse creatures.

Eldar Vampire Hunter wrote:I like it. Personally I'd drop 1 Fex and some Stealers for another big unit of Gaunts, since thats the way it'll soon lean. Otherwise it looks solid.
Cam

Cheers mate. My Tyranid lists usually get slated so it's nice to hear you think it's cool.

Klueless.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mercer wrote:I've played against this list. Its pretty tuogh and a lot of models.

Honestly, I don't think it possibly needs anything really. Only one thing though, zoanthropes, perhaps I go for them first but I don't see you using them much. Only use is synapse creatures.

TBH the Zoanthropes are a pain in the ass. They are so hit & miss (more miss) that they hardly have much use for anything but Synapse. They are best for killing marines in the open more than anything. I hope with the new codex they have a BS upgrade or at least the option to upgrade them. That would make them much more useful! Also, it would be cool if they could have another psychic power so I could try out a 'Psychic Choir' Army (several models with Psychic scream). I like the idea of it, but it's just too useful having the shot & Synapse. I'd hate to drop Synapse & have my Carnifex's wondering off mid game...! & it would be just as grim having a shot on the rear of a tank & not being able to take it because I gave it the wrong upgrades...!
The only thing I'd really change about this list is I'd drop one of the Boomfex's in replacement for another Devilfex. They are just SOOOOOO useful.

I think the zoanthropes are almost essential. Especially if you're going to be including gaunts, i dont' think it matters that much if they don't appear to be particularly effective in terms of killing stuff.

They're kinda like the glue that holds your pieces together. They provice synapse for your little bugs, allowing your tyrants to go off on a rampage - do you really want to hold a tyrant back for babysitting gaunts?

They're also tough to kill - basically you need to be firing your low ap stuff to reliably kill them. Any plasma / melta / lascannon shots used to kill zoanthorpes are not being shot at the carnifexes/tyrants.

Look at warp blast as a bonus in my opinion. Sure, you're not going to be popping land raiders reliably with them, but if a rhino comes in range or a nice tightly packed group of marines for the AP3 blast.... that's where they'll shine.

anyways, I like this list, i think it has the best of both worlds.

If anyone has any tips for beating this list with a general marine list feel free to PM me btw . I wouldn't say I have nightmares but it's certainly a tough nut to crack.

Klueless wrote:TBH the Zoanthropes are a pain in the ass. They are so hit & miss (more miss) that they hardly have much use for anything but Synapse.

Baby sitters look after the kids whilst Mum and Dad go out.

Zoanthropes look after Gaunts whilst Tyrants and Carnifexes go to town on whatever they so desire.

derekbadger wrote:If anyone has any tips for beating this list with a general marine list feel free to PM me btw . I wouldn't say I have nightmares but it's certainly a tough nut to crack.

My younger brother has around 2000 points of Tyranid's so I've a little experience on the subject. What has been successful to me is identifying what will win your opponent the game, which in two out of the three Rulebook missions is troop choices. Gaunts and Genestealers are pretty fragile, even if the latter can tear you a new one if you're not looking, always remember that. Yeah, I know the Carnifex/Tyrant walking towards you is big, scary and shiny, but they will only ever be able to contest. The most successful way I've experienced of dealing with the shiny MC's is with throwing my nasty units right back at them. Assault Terminators spring to mind. My last bit of advice would be don't flip out when you remember the alien with 6 Attacks and 10 Str wandering towards your gunline has 4 wounds, composure and target priority.

Interesting info guys. I do see the idea of the Zoanthropes as 'baby sitters', but I just wish that for 195 points (the cost of X3) they were slightly more useful at shooting. Then they would be something that you COULDN"T ignore. Or perhaps if they were like multimeltas, so if you were in 9" or something you could roll X2 D6 for Armour pen. It would make light tanks seriously think about coming near & make the probability of tank shocks onto the objective in the last turn a serious worry... (DerekBadger! Grrrr!!)
It would also Give Tyranids a ranged chance to knock out the dreaded Land Raider with Assault Terminators before it closed in! It wouldn't take that much to make them kick ass. I can't wait for the new codex....!
On the subject of landraiders - I do find it quite annoying that I have to roll 6's to hit a vehicle that has moved 12". Especially when I assault the Land Raider with 2 Carnifex & a Tyrant & get no hits!!!
Thanks for your comments all.

I've found Zoanthropes to be quite mediocre, even for Tyranids. Having to pass a psychic test just to be able to shoot your BS 3 weapon sucks. I'd only use one if I needed a Gaunt babysitter and didn't have enough points for a small unit of Warriors. With that in mind, I'd say swap the Zoanthropes for some deathspitter Warriors. It's decent anti-troop firepower and, sadly, probably better against light vehicles.

Other than that, you're looking pretty good. I'm not really a fan of taking more Gaunts than absolutely necessary, but whatever works. If you want the swarm feel, they're essential. If you're going for a competitive list, dump 16 of them to squeeze in another Carnifex.

about the carnifexes wondering off mid game, as i understand it they are fearless and thus pass their IB test automatically. so dont warry about youre fexes, or have i goten it all wrong?

MilkmanAl wrote:If you're going for a competitive list, dump 16 of them to squeeze in another Carnifex.

LoL! Love it! Awesome advice.
In the spirit of fair play I'll keep it as it is though.
Cheers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Muppfan wrote:about the carnifexes wondering off mid game, as i understand it they are fearless and thus pass their IB test automatically. so dont warry about youre fexes, or have i goten it all wrong?

It doesn't say anywhere that fearless models pass IB tests. The only models that act outside of synapse range are Genestealers.
So, Carnifex's, although LD 10 have to take tests to move if they're outside synapse range. Hence my quote - "I don't want my carnifex wandering off mid game".
It has happened before.

Looks like a mini Nidzilla this is my area of expertise.
Zoans blah. At average points like this they are ok. But for the points you spend babysitting those gaunts you could have another squad of genestealers. Warp blast fails but it's ok as our only ap3 against marines but so many tests to make....

Close combat fex's whats this I know sure but fex's don't have fleet and mech is big in 5th edition you'll be pissed when your enemy moves rhino's 12 inches away from you and fires 2 melta's outta the top slowly killing you. I know myself last game was friend brought 1 rhino which anoyyed me all game. However i used Gun/Sniper fex's you seem to know the names well so i'll assume you know thier builds to stop them shooting or moving and shooting.

Without Number is your friend. Your enemy will see your troops and laugh 1 squad of tac marines will remove those gaunts. Thus leaving your stealers your only scoring unit when you want them to be heavy hitters that your enemy stays 18 inches away from the sides of the board. Why do this because it makes your boomfex's hit more. scatter is a pain but when the enemy is so close together it's hard to miss. Of course i'm also demanding you take scuttlers.

On a big table your enemy only needs 4 dev's 48 inches away to hit hit 1 fex or tyrant a turn factoring in other squads using special weapons. You can deepstrike your tyrant wait it can't assault seriously think of 2 dakka tyrant my friend. One dakka tyrant turning up right next to them and dishing out the hurt on targets the enemy guy thinks is safe is a great asset. Your max range is 36 inches.

I write this from a power play point of view as if your going into a tournament. I love making hardcore lists and sorry if thats not how your making yours.

Hey Klueless, how's it been? I just went and read the FAQ off the GW site after reading Muppfan's comments . . . turns out he's right, it says that any model that is not fearless tests for instinctive behaviour. Sorry for telling you the opposite when we started playing - I think I was right at the time and they've changed it since. Can't remember it ever costing you a game anyway.

Ripister, you are right that zoanthropes ain't that great. But your punctuation and grammar makes my eyes bleed, and I disagree about everything else.

Combat carnifexes can break units once they get to them, and it may be hard to catch vehicles, but once they're there it's far easier to destroy them with a S9 MC than with any tyranid bio-weapon. I don't think Klueless ever deep strikes his flyrant - and given that, I think the flyer is scarier as a combat monster while the other tyrant uses dakka.

My advice is to either give the zoanthropes (and the tyrants) psychic scream or whatever the -1LD power is called, and convert the genestealer squads into gaunts
OR
Turn the gaunts and zoanthropes into more genestealers and another heavy carnifex. This is my preferred option. Carnifexes scare me a lot more than zoanthropes, especially in Kill Point missions.

Hey J. How's it going?
I guess I stand corrected. Apologies to the guy I corrected. Although, strictly speaking. I doesn't say it in the codex. I'm sure I could find it if I had half the bother to scroll through the FAQ's on the site. Much like the fact that Chaos rhino's actually have 2 fire points, despite the fact it says they only have one in the codex....!
I think it might have cost me a game or 2 against Dan dude. So, in light if that. I claim total victory over the league games...
Pretty funny you correcting that guys gram dude.
As for the Psychic choir thing. As I said above. I'd love to do it but Synapse & Warp Blast are just too useful!
Perhaps the next codex will make them slightly more useful.
Also dude. If I take Zoanthropes & the mission is Annihilation, that's kind of a bonus for you as they count as 3 kill points not just one for the Carnifex. I am thinking that another Devilfex & Combatfex is probably the best thing to do with my two new ones. However, I will wait until January to see.
I'm just about to post a video about my guard J. You'll be quite surprised how much I've got now I think.

I'll mail you when it's done.
Take it easy.

I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly wrote:
Ripister, you are right that zoanthropes ain't that great. But your punctuation and grammar makes my eyes bleed, and I disagree about everything else.

Failing english sucks

But hey i'm open to discussion on what you tell i haven't lost a game with nids using my tactic's even though i've only played 6... but yeah would be nice to see what else you think
As far as i see the flyrant sure close combat great, but once you are out of combat your stuck with lots of firepower pointed at you.
And when the enemy see close combat fex's i find you can count of them sitting in a corner and will kill it before getting there or being charged by cannon fodder squads

Ripister wrote:

I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly wrote:
Ripister, you are right that zoanthropes ain't that great. But your punctuation and grammar makes my eyes bleed, and I disagree about everything else.

Failing english sucks

Seeing myself quoted, I now realise that I should've said "zoanthropes aren't that great" and "punctuation and grammar make my eyes bleed". So yeah, I've really got nothing to brag about.

Klueless, I think you should try the psychic choir idea out before it vanishes with the new codex! After all, you always say that the warp blast is pretty hit-and-miss. Or if you were just using genestealers and carnifexes, you could give them warp blast and psychic scream, leaving out synapse, right? And when I said fexes scare me more than zoanthropes in Annihilation, that's what I meant - they're an opportunity to pick up extra KPs.

Ripister, I suppose that dakka/combat upgrades for tyrants and carnifexes is kind of a matter of taste. You're sort of trading range for damage if you see what I mean - the rules make it a lot easier to wipe out squads and kill most vehicles via close combat, but it's easier for your opponents to keep out of range. Maybe the solution is to have some MCs of each type, that way you can pepper the troops that run away and stomp the ones who stay to fight!

I didn't actually notice your grammer but yeah. I find reducing a squad from like 10 guy to 3 with range against MEQ's is gold they sit there going crap what now. Close combat the only way i like it is if i charge in and win combat on your assault phase so i can charge something else. Which fex's and tyrants usually make the squad run away or kill them all first turn of combat which leaves a whole shooting phase were your vulnerable.

be interested to know if any 'nid players have ever tried a flying devil tryant (i.e. winged with TL Devourers). Seems to me that the devil tryant is seriously good at mowing down even elite troops, but can be fairly easily maneuvered around. 12 shots rerolling hits and wounds with a working range of 30" would be pretty neat no? and would still be formidable enough in CC.

(anyone know how to fix wave serpents btw)

I've tried it last game It got up fast and mowed down a dev squad that was putting out a lot of fire. Not having much effect though but needless to say i got rid of those missle lanchers fast. It also lets you run away and fire. e.g when those assault terminators leave thier land raider and chase you around.

(EDIT) after 1500+ points don't use a flying tyrant at that level your enemy has enough guns to take it out with easy before it makes it's points back.

I love it when i get lucky make raiders immobile first turn. Venom Cannons are effective but not as effective as they should be remeber from Bell of lost Souls tactic's you don't need to destroy a tank to stop it. Making a LR not be able to move instead of destroying it means those temrinators have to use their movement to leave. Were as if it wrecked they would get an extra 6 inches closer to you.
Litte advantage of ranged heavy fex's there.

derekbadger wrote:(anyone know how to fix wave serpents btw)

LOL!

Klueless wrote:

derekbadger wrote:(anyone know how to fix wave serpents btw)

LOL!

Busted is a understatement Jasper lol.

Forgive me, but what needs fixing about Wave Serpents? (besides the points cost). i realise the are horrendously overpriced, but as you guys are Nid players I struggle to see what you think is wrong with them.

As my little flag shows, I am in China. My prized wave serpents, along with the rest of my Eldar, are in the UK, at Klueless' base of operations. It appears something has happened to them, or the others (I play with Klueless, derekbadger and mercer) are just pulling my leg.

Those wave serpents had better be lying in their padded box as they were when I left them. Will not be impressed if they're all mashed up. Honestly, did one of you let Rico near them?

Eldar Vampire Hunter wrote:Forgive me, but what needs fixing about Wave Serpents? (besides the points cost). i realise the are horrendously overpriced, but as you guys are Nid players I struggle to see what you think is wrong with them.

Dude. It's a private joke between us. It's noting to do with the rules of wave serpents. (they piss me off they're so good!)
J - Nothing has happened. It's just Dan pulling your leg & the rest of the world has caught up on it.
The models are still as damaged as they were since Rico's rastafarian swing on them!!!
Although, Dan is the only guy using them so any damage that may happen is solely his fault!

Your list looks ok but the bigest gripe I have with it is your HS fex. That is your most expensive fex is your least effective one. I run a Quire list that has 2 elite fexes with BioPlasma, 2 ST and +1 I. All they do is pincer move. One up the left 1/3rd and one up the right 1/3rd. This way the enemy has to deal with one or both. The way you have it, one 12" move by them can keep you away from the enemy tanks or IC all game. Then a good player will toss a throw away unit at it and not worry about you fex until the last turn and by then it's to late for him to do anything good. I would say drop it compleatly and roll with your other fexes. You have enough.
I really like the boomfexes. I have never really though about doing that. The only thing I would do to them would be to add +1 BS and maybe swap out the ST for a twin-linked weapon for more shooting power. A deathspitter is your best bet.
I don't like the devil fex but I never liked them to begin with so that doesn't say much. I would change him into another boomfex and just pie plate like you're a clown.

Drop a Zoanthrope or drop Synapse from 2 of them for 20 points. You just don't have enough creatures that require synapse to have 5 synapse guys. Remember, the small blast is Str 5 and AP 3 so you kill SMs on a 3+. This is what their main purpose should be.

Take out a gaunt unit and split the other one into two or have 2 units of 10 gaunts with spine fists. There are some more points freed up. Run them out in front of your guys for very cheap 4+ cover saves. That turns them into a 50pt rolling cover save for your genestealers, Zoanthropes and you Tyrant+Tyrant Guard units. This is what they are for. A good player will kill all your MCs or troops first and a bad player will split fire between the two and kill neither. Your best bet is to hope for bad rolls from the good player and rush him with the little guys. They go down fast so shooting really isn't that important. Just don't get the gaunts into the same combat as the genestealers. They will go down a lot faster and kill your stealers with resolution saves.

Your tyrants are a mess. The flyrant is a very expensive way to pop tanks and not to reliable at Str 6. Even with 2d6 pin you will average a 13. That's not even glancing a Land Raider. If you send it up against people, it will be to far out ahead and get pasted if it wins combat or get swamped the next turn. If you hold back for your slow guys you waste 40 points and it will be shot at at AP 2 weapons. That 6+ invole is a joke.
Your other one is perfect except for two things. You don't have any guard and you bought warp field for it. AP2 weapons will eat it alive. Again, 6+ is nothing. Get three guard and drop Warp Field for the EC or just not take it at all. The 6 extra wounds will do wonders for him AND gaunts can now give the unit a cover save.

Your genestealers are good. Consider getting a 3rd unit and and make it feeder tendrils and change the other two to flesh hooks. That way they still strike at I6 if they attack through cover AND you can use the 2" bubble to give them the re-roll.

All and all you list will be a hit or miss list. It will all depend on how your pie plates do and how fast they shoot up your Tyrants and little guys. I still think dakka fexes are a waste of points because a Tyrant will do 9 wounds to a SM. That's more wounds then the fex has shots and its survivability is higher and it's a cheaper base model. Your list is good for tying a game but it would be hard pressed to win anything besides the Base game. All and all your list is about 50% shooty and 50% CC. This isn't very good. Pick one or the other.

Thanks for your comments mate. I don't totally agree with everything you've said but I do appreciate you taking the time to comment.
If I may.....
The CC Carnifex is probably, as you said too expensive but is a true killer. I suppose I could find the points to add another somewhere & run them up the table together. I'd have to give it the Miasma & WS upgrades though as it makes killing men so much more reliable. I'm not really concerned about the Carnifex though.
Dropping a Zoanthrope is a good idea. I think I'll try that. As for the gaunts, I don't think I'll be following that advice. In my experience gaunts drop like flies to rapid fire or the dreaded 'bladestorm'. A unit of 10 will just get annihilated, then my stealers are pissing in the wind. (excuse my french).
As for the Tyrants. I rarely use my Flyrant to attack tanks. I'm well aware that he is not so great at it. My main use for him is to pound IC into the ground. He is a scary thing to behold & with the CC fex running up behind him he can't be ignore. The other Tyrant I do usually run with Guard. I just decided to try out the Warp field on him. Which, despite the fact you say is unreliable has saved my big boys from a few sticky situations. The way I look at it is this. If all the lascannons, plasma guns, melta guns etc are firing at one of my big guys, he may well go down but that's several others that are doing their job as the little guys are swarming ever closer. i love it when people underestimate the little guys in my Army. I think Fleshborers ROCK! I've killed Terminators with the buggers! Interesting advice about the guard on the Tyrants getting cover saves. I'd never thought of that.
The Stealers... I've done this before & it is a good practice.
The only other thing I find slightly confusing about your comment is that you say my army is 50% shooty & 50% CC, which I guess it is. But then you say you like the idea of the boom fex. Which is it's self 50% shooty & 50% CC. Although, I do see you say that you would relpace the Talons with another BS, which makes me wonder why you would upgrade the models BS as templates aren't really effected by scattering in 5th edition?
Over all I agree with a lot of what you have mentioned. Have tried some of the stuff before & just fancied changing my list slightly. & disagree with a few points. But hey, it would be boring if we were all the same ey.
Cheers mate.

Muppfan wrote:about the carnifexes wondering off mid game, as i understand it they are fearless and thus pass their IB test automatically. so dont warry about youre fexes, or have i goten it all wrong?

You are not wrong. The codex page 28 is edited in the games workshop tyranid faq Carnifexs do not need synapse and never revert to instinctive behavior or fall back because they are fearless.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1180140_Tyranids_FAQ_2006-08_5th_Edition.pdf

Hey Luke, I agree with Kwosge about some general things. I think the zoanthropes are a bit much, and the gaunts would be better off as small WoN units. You probably could squeeze in another carnifex if you cut some stuff, and he's right that 2 comabt carnis are better tthan one, you can dictate where your opponent is safe to move.

I think the boomfexes are best as they are though, the other ranged weapons are all a bit pointless on this model, ST are always a useful bonus. I also like the dakkafex and flyrant, certainly they're what scares me when I play you. The point isn't whether the tyrant dies eventually - he's actually pretty cheap for his unit-slaughtering potential IMO. But since he's so damn fast, I either have to concentrate on him while the other beasts get closer, or ignore him while he goes after my most powerful units.

Hey Klueless,

The list doesn't look bad, looks fun. The only thing I see that I might change up a little is possibly taking away the gaunts and replacing them with Genestealers. That would allow you to replace the Zoanthropes with another Carnifex and probably make it a Sniperfex (barbed strangler & venom cannon w/ enchnaced senses) to lay down an extra template and the Venom Cannon to help stun/shock tanks so they can't move or fire into your ranks. This would make it more Nid'zilla style but I feel it would give you a bit more bite.

I also agree that your Heavy fex probably shouldn't be your CC fex unless you have more shooters to back them up. Reason is your Fex's are the only Creature that is able to make proper use of the VC, as it's the only organism in the whole list that reach its max dmg of 10. Warriors/Tyrants can only reach 6-7, which isn't bad but doesn't make it as useful.

With your Tyrant (Dakka-Tyrant) I would suggest giving him a guard if you can. He would last longer and just be more annoying.

Your Heavy Fex, I would drop the Toxic Miasma and +I Adrenal Gland, I mean lets be honest here, who are you going to beat in a CC with an Initiative of 2? With the points you saved from dropping those you could put on something very useful to CC fex's which is Implant Attack. That would do much better for you then T. Miasma or +I Glands. Doing 2 wounds per unsaved wound is hot in CC especially with 4 attacks and 5 on the charge or 6 on the charge if you give him the Tusked biomorph.

I also agree, Warriors are far better at babysitting Gaunts then Zoanthropes, Zoey's have their place and they can work as synapse gap fillers if you're using WoN but other than that, not much. They can pop AV14 vehicles which is nice, but so can Fex's when they get into CC and if you have a couple that can Stun them with VC's then you're actually able to close with them, take them out and move on, that way they can't kite you around the board and kill you slowly.

Just my thoughts, hope they help some. Have fun.

Cheers