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1) The last post I read on this matter stated a yes, but can you use the power with teloport homers (homing beacons, whatever they are called)?

2) Can you gate out of melee?

1) with a teleport homer, you would have to be wearing terminator armour, and even then, it's dubious whether Gate of Infinitry is teleporting since it never uses that word unlike the terminator armour.

I also think it's questionable with locator beacons whether the librarian and/or the squad he is with are truly "arriving on the battlefield" since they were already on it. Maybe someone else here can clarify more, but right now I would say no to both.

2) There's no reason you couldn't use the psychic power in the assault phase, so the question really relies on how you break up the rest of it, you aren't allowed to move when locked in close combat, and deep strike is a form of movement. However, nothing stops models locked in close combat from being removed from the table, so if you consider it to be two steps (1. remove from table, 2. deep strike) then by the time the deep strike rolls around they aren't locked anymore so it's not an issue.

YMMV here, but I would say yes you may use it from melee.

Locator beacons, yes. Teleport homers, i wouldn't think so. For much the same reasons Drunkspleen listed. I wouldn't call it teleportation unless it used the word.

Drunkspleen wrote:1) with a teleport homer, you would have to be wearing terminator armour, and even then, it's dubious whether Gate of Infinitry is teleporting since it never uses that word unlike the terminator armour.

I also think it's questionable with locator beacons whether the librarian and/or the squad he is with are truly "arriving on the battlefield" since they were already on it. Maybe someone else here can clarify more, but right now I would say no to both.

2) There's no reason you couldn't use the psychic power in the assault phase, so the question really relies on how you break up the rest of it, you aren't allowed to move when locked in close combat, and deep strike is a form of movement. However, nothing stops models locked in close combat from being removed from the table, so if you consider it to be two steps (1. remove from table, 2. deep strike) then by the time the deep strike rolls around they aren't locked anymore so it's not an issue.

YMMV here, but I would say yes you may use it from melee.

You can't use the psychic power in the Assault Phase, because it specifies which phase you use it in. Deepstrike follows immediately after they're removed. Having said that, and understanding that changes nothing about whether or not it can be performed, i really don't know the answer.

If it's any help, the INAT FAQs say no.

Ridcully wrote:You can't use the psychic power in the Assault Phase, because it specifies which phase you use it in. Deepstrike follows immediately after they're removed. Having said that, and understanding that changes nothing about whether or not it can be performed, i really don't know the answer.

If it's any help, the INAT FAQs say no.

Oops, that's what I get for not checking my rules when answering questions, I obviously overlooked that it's used in the movement phase, although how I decided it would be an assault phase power is beyond me. I still stand by my conclusion though, the rules merely state that a unit locked in close combat cannot move during the movement phase, they can take other actions in the movement phase if relevant, and I think that includes activating a psychic power or being removed from the table.

I believe that the RaW do not allow Teleport Homers OR locator Beacons to help GoI, as the unit is not Arriving by Deepstrike, it is being placed by the Deep Strike Rules.

And is referred to as a "deep strike attempt" in the same rule. I don't see any reason it shouldn't be allowed to function as a deep strike attempt.

Ridcully wrote:And is referred to as a "deep strike attempt" in the same rule. I don't see any reason it shouldn't be allowed to function as a deep strike attempt.

I am not saying it is a deep strike attempt, I am saying the Locator Beacons state that they are used by Units Arriving on the battlefield by Deep Strike.

If a unit wishes to arrive on the battlefield via deep strike and chooses to do so within 6" of a model carrying a locator beacon, then it won't scatter.

If you are on the battlefield and use the power, you are hardly arriving by deep strike.

Did you mean to say "I am not saying it isn't a deep strike attempt"? Because the rules say it is.

Arriving suggests you weren't there and now you are. Having been removed from the board, then placed on the board; they certainly sound like they're 'arriving' to me.

Ridcully wrote:Did you mean to say "I am not saying it isn't a deep strike attempt"? Because the rules say it is.

Sorry, yes, that is what I meant to say. I need to lrn2Grammar!

In any case, I think this a "Agree to disagree" situation. I can see your point, but do you see mine? If they were already on the battlefield, they are not arriving.

I can see your point from a fluff perspective, yes. *evil laugh*

I tend to concur with Ridcully.

Teleport Homer- no.
Locator Beacon- I'd raise no objection.

If you read the Deep Strike rules section carefully, you'll see that there are two separate concepts in there. One is Deep Strike the ability (i.e. Terminator Teleport, etc), and the other is deep strike the placement rules.

You do not Deep Strike when you use Gate of Infinity. You Gate, and use the deep strike rules to determine final placement. That's why Teleport Homers and Locator Beacons don't work for GoI. They both only work for Deep Striking units, which a unit arriving by GoI is not.

As to using it to leave assault, I believe it does. You are given permission to use the power in the movement phase, and the power itself is not movement, so there is no conflict. You are then told to remove your models from the table. Remove from table does not fit the given game definition of movement, so still no conflict. Last step is to resolve placement using the deep strike rules. This counts as movement, but as you are not locked to assault at this point it does not create a conflict.

That is my opinion, I understand the opposing points of view. Use what you and your opponent agree to. For what it's worth to you, the discussion I had with the official rules query person at GW is that it works to leave assault. Further, I was told the reason it works specifically is because 'remove from table' is not movement in game terms.

If you were to use a Locator Beacon with this would that mean you can't possibly lose someone when gating as there is no scatter?

Thanatos_elNyx wrote:If you were to use a Locator Beacon with this would that mean you can't possibly loss someone when gating as there is no scatter?

It's not an issue because you cannot use a locator beacon with it

Kaaihn's argument is a sound one.

I reverse my previous position. No homers OR beacons with Gate.

It is a deep strike because it uses the rules and is referred to as a deep strike attempt. Any benefits of a deepstrike should therefore be available.

Thanatos_elNyx wrote:If you were to use a Locator Beacon with this would that mean you can't possibly lose someone when gating as there is no scatter?

That's correct, yes

Ridcully wrote:It is a deep strike because it uses the rules and is referred to as a deep strike attempt. Any benefits of a deepstrike should therefore be available.

It might be a Deep Strike, but that's not what the Locator Beacon asks for. It asks for the models to Arrive by Deep Strike.

These models are arriving by Deep Strike.

But let me throw out the might "agree to disagree" gesture

Kaaihn wrote:If you read the Deep Strike rules section carefully, you'll see that there are two separate concepts in there.

Ridcully wrote:These models are arriving by Deep Strike.

Kaaihn wrote:If you read the Deep Strike rules section carefully, you'll see that there are two separate concepts in there.

kirsanth wrote:

Kaaihn wrote:If you read the Deep Strike rules section carefully, you'll see that there are two separate concepts in there.

Ridcully wrote:These models are arriving by Deep Strike.

Kaaihn wrote:If you read the Deep Strike rules section carefully, you'll see that there are two separate concepts in there.

Ridcully wrote:It is a deep strike because it uses the rules and is referred to as a deep strike attempt. Any benefits of a deepstrike should therefore be available.

Gwar! wrote:It might be a Deep Strike, but that's not what the Locator Beacon asks for. It asks for the models to Arrive by Deep Strike.

Ridcully wrote:These models are arriving by Deep Strike.

Seriously Kirsanth, what are you doing?

I'm new at this, but doesn't it say in the rules for Gate of Infinity: Remove the pieces from the board (they are no longer in play, and as such are not "arrived" ) and to replace them using the deep strike rules? I agree no teleport homer cause the description for that gear specifically states teleport and terminator, but the locator beacon just says arrive by deep strike. Seeing as using Gate of Infinity removes your models from the table, replacing back on the table would mean they are arriving since they aren't already on the table. That's a deep strike arrival isn't it?

<-- again noob. I'm running circle sin my head here.

Correct. Just because you don't follow every part of the Deepstrike section (this is what you guys are arguing, right?) to the letter does not mean you're performing something that isn't considered deepstrike- which in this case is explicitly a "deepstrike attempt". Otherwise Swooping Hawks, and any other unit that returns to reserve, would likewise be unable to meet every characteristic of a Deepstriking unit (ie. beginning the gaming in reserve).

Yeah that's what I mean. You've basically used Gate of Infinity to remove your units from play, put them back into "reserve" with the attached requirement of you have to put them back into play using deep strike. The unit isn't in play, you ahve to remove them from the table to use the ability with rules as written so it is arriving.

It's not even back into reserve as we know it, it's simply off the table. And now i have to go to work... <_<

That's the way I play it too.
I figure using deep strike rules means...using deep strike rules!
If the librarian is in terminator armor, we even allow teleport homer.

The RAW way I play it, yes, Locator Beacons + Gate works and yes, Gate can be used to leave combat.

GW rules aren't written with technical accuracy. Just look at Bjorn the Fel-Handed, a Dreadnought with a 5+ Invulnerable save that he can never use, ever, because he has no wounds.

Wouldn't he use the save in the same way that any vehicle would use a cover save?

time wizard wrote:Wouldn't he use the save in the same way that any vehicle would use a cover save?

No, since Invulnerable saves are only taken when a wound normally ignores all armor saves. Since he is a vehicle with no wounds, he can't take it.

You can take cover saves against penetrating and glancing hits. Bjorn has an invulnerable save specifically ruled to be used against penetrating and glancing hits. I see no problem with this.

Invulnerable saves are designed to always be taken, regardless of the armour penetration of the weapon. There is no condition that they can only be taken against a wound that ignores all armour saves.

Ridcully wrote:You can take cover saves against penetrating and glancing hits. Bjorn has an invulnerable save specifically ruled to be used against penetrating and glancing hits. I see no problem with this.

Invulnerable saves are designed to always be taken, regardless of the armour penetration of the weapon. There is no condition that they can only be taken against a wound that ignores all armour saves.

I just had this exact same debate with my friend not 5 minutes ago.

And as such, I am withdrawing my previous statement and going with I have no clue.