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After much agonzing over what to cram in the 1750 this is what I came up with. Should have some test games up soon. Let me know what you think.

77th Aesir Company 1750
HQ
Company Command Squad
4 Melta Gun
Chimera "Odin"
Multi Laser + Hull Heavy Flamer
Total 145

Elites
Inquisitor
Emperors Tarot
2 Mystics
Total 47

Psyker Battle Squad
2 more psykers
Chimera "Hel"
Multi Laser + Hull Heavy Flamer
135

Troops
10 Veterans
3 Meltagun
Demolitions
130

10 Veterans
3 Meltagun
Demolitions
130

10 Veterans
3 Plasma Gun
Las Cannon
Chimera "Hodur"
Multi Laser + Hull Heavy Flamer
190

10 Veterans
3 Plasma Gun
Las Cannon
Chimera "Loki"
Multi Laser + Hull Heavy Flamer
190

Fast Attack
Vendetta "Lenneth"
130

Vendetta "Hirst"
130

Valkyrie "Silmeria"
Missle Pods
130

Heavy Support
Leman Russ Executioner "Freya"
Plasma Cannon Sponsons
Hull Heavy Flamer
230

Manticore "Thor"
Hull Heavy Flamer
160

Total: 1747

Stats
antihorde: valkyrie with missle pods, 4 heavy flamers on chimeras, manticore, psyker battle squad,
hard infantry: 2xvets with 3 melta and demo charge, 1x vets with 3 plasma gun, executioner
landraider/battlewagon: 10 melta guns + manticore
long range transport kill: 2 vendetta, 2 las cannons on vets in chimeras, 4 multi lasers on chimeras
scoring units: 4 total, 2 in valkyrie, and 2 in chimeras.

Choice Explanations
CCS with 4 Meltas is great for anti tank and a great deterent for tanks to get close to my lines.

DH Inquisitor is always included for anti deepstrike and the tarot for the +1 to go first 5/6 of the time. with all the daemons and pod lists lately its pretty good At 1750 couldn't afford the Sage and Psycannon nor a transport to shoot out of. I put them in one of the Valkyries for a larger anti deepstrike bubble or if its kill points hide them somewhere.

Psyker battle squad for the nob biker match up and killing fateweaver. 6 psykers is enough to give leadership 9 -6 = 3 which will fail most of the time. 8 psykers is better for the higher strength on the template but points are tight.

Vets with meltas and melta bombs are for killing high av vehicles. They can first turn assault vehicles that didn't move with melta bombs out of Valkyries after they scout move. heavy flamers + demo charge should be pretty good against hordes.

Vets in Chimera with plama and las cannon also sit back near my objective and shoot at vehicles or use plasma for clean up of marines that fall out of transports

2 Vendettas for transport hunting and droping off melta vets.

1 Valkyrie with missle pods for killing infantry and droping off melta vets

Executioner kills Marines that fall out of busted transports.

Manticore D3 Str10 AP4 large blast nuff said good vs hordes and decent for land raider poping.

I like this list a lot. I'm starting my own guard list and have started play testing it. I would be very interested in how this army plays out, especially versus an all biker SM army.

Obviously a very competitive list. Don't see the advisors you mentioned though, better recheck your math. Do you really use the lascannons on the veterans in chimeras by the way? You might be better off spending the points on something else. How about giving one plasma unit demolitions, and one unit an autocannon instead?

I ended up cutting the advisors because majority of games they were 60 pts of dead weight or little use like astropath if I went second and was only reserving 3 outflanking valkyries nor the officer of fleet who was worthless in 80% of the games when my opponent had 0 reserves.

Las cannons on vets are good. Early on they sit back on your objective(s) and fire at transports and when the enemy infantry gets in range you can rapid fire with plasmas.

You also need some long range Str8+ ap2 that isn't on Vendettas because Vendettas tend to get targeted and shaken or killed and the las cannons in vet squads provides that.

It seems very solid. I would be curious to see how it does.

Should start testing this soon. I was testing my 1850 Sisters list lately because this won't be painted by Nov 7th. Will post results when I do.

I'm in the early stages of putting together a Guard army myself, so I'm interested to see how this goes for you. The list is similar to what I had in mind.

I feel like you have a very small proportion of tanks. The transports are semi tanks, but I am talking like Russ 14 front armor. That or maybe Hellhounds and the like. The list looks pretty good overall, but I just like more armor in my armies. Spread the points out, so if you go up against an army that is good at taking out horde armies (what you are) you don't get shafted because that is all you have.

Well I played a couple games with this list.

First was against a Chaos 3 land raider list which was pretty much a blow out since I went first and he put his rhinos behind his raiders and I killed 2 raiders with the scout assault first turn trick and the manticore scatter stunned a rhino. He rushed forward with Rhinos and smoked blocking off the termies from being shot. I managed to kill a Rhino despite smokes with las cannons making it a termie and plague marine shooting gallery for the exectioner and plasma vets. Pretty much is down hill for him from there.

Second was a nail biter against an Imperial Guard Mirror match against a Leman Russ Heavy List. Which was spearhead. He had 2 Vanquishers in a Squadron with Pask in the corner an Executioner and a Regular russ with Chimeras with Melta vets inside as troops and a 4 melta ccs with banewolf support.

He got first turn and I reserved the Valkyries and tried to get as much cover saves as possible with the psyker battle squad and exectutioner. but the Manticore was hidden and the plasma vet las cannon chimeras had coversaves. He rushed forward and shot only with the Vanquishers which managed to wreck the PBS Chimera and the Demolisher shook my executioner.

On my turn my return fire las cannons wreck a melta vet chimera despite smokes costing me a plasma vet to overheat and the manticore blows up his demolisher. I smoke with the executioner and the command chimera.

He rushes forward again taking some melta shots at my ccs chimera but failing to do any damage due to smokes and taking shots at the executioner but failing to do anything not being in 6 inches. Vanquisher squad shoots at my command chimera and destroys it. Banewolf burns my psyker battle squad. Regular Russ fails to do anything to the Chimera it shot at again.

Valkyrie comes on the side of his vanquishers and the I melta them killing one and blowing off the vanquisher cannon off pasks and valkyrie rockets the vets that fell out of the chimera I killed killing most of them,I melta the banewolf with my ccs killing it. Las cannon plasma vets blow up his ccs chimera and blow it up and I lose another plasma vet to overheat. executioner finishes them off.

He burns my CCS with his vet chimera killing them all He burns my melta vets who droped out of the valk killing most of them but I still have a few left and make my leadership. He blows up one of the Plasma vet chimeras with his melta vets.

Empty Vendetta inside comes on the other side shooting at a chimera side and stunning it. ground plasma vet and las cannon rapid fire into the chimera it blows up. I melta his Chimera on his objective which he had parked right by the vanquishers in the back and it blows up. I kill his squad with the Valkyrie with missle pods so he no longer has objective.

His russ kills my vets near his objective but they did their job. Its pretty bloody. In the end I end up with 1 objective to his none. That last one in the Vendetta which came on late won it for me. He killed 3 of my vet squads and I killed all of his.



After this game I'm thinking I might make one of the Plasma Vets a melta for situations like this where he gets into my backfield with mech and my valks come in late or I have to use them offensively.

I'll be the odd man out and say I don't like it, armies like tau and necs that normally do poorly, actually rend lists like this apart. And once things start falling apart it shatters. HW team massed armies do it in as well. Just be careful. Flameshield up!

Try to get in the Psy cannon on the Inquisitor for killing Fateweaver. What to cut is the question. Downgrade of one unit from Plasma to Melta is only 15 points. Plasma Cannon Sponsons does make enough points but do you really want to cut that for a Psycannon you might not use? Other then that looks good.

AV14 is over rated. Enough AV12 vehicles is fine. Its the same idea as the immolator spam sisters. If you have enough vehicles the opponent can't kill them all.

Tau is winnable if you had first turn or there was decent cover for vehicles to reduce the effectiveness of railguns. Shotguns on Veterans are actually very good here if you do the conversions since Tau are worse then IG in close combat.

Necrons is tough because IG does not have good assault units to wipe them out quickly but many Necron players have too few warriors and are easy to phase out.

Heavy Weapons teams are actually terribad. They are BS3 and leadership 7 is not all that reliable for bring it down orders and if you insta kill one with a strength 6+ weapon they have a high chance of running because of leadership 7.

Daemons with Fateweaver, Bloodcrushers, Horrors with Bolt, Plague Bearers and Soul Grinders/Princes is actually a worse match up then Tau or Necrons.

This looks really similar to what I've been playing. Honestly I think I like yours a little more than mine (I'm running a unit of GKs and an extra Exec instead of 2 units of vets and the Manticore). The more I play with it, the more I dislike the Vendettas. They die so fast that they are anything but reliable. I honestly want to ditch them in favor of Banewolves/Devildogs (undecided which would be more ideal as of yet) and Manticores (I run 2 Execs in my HS spots... and wish I had a Manticore instead of one of them most of the time).

I'm also finding that a Chimera phalanx of 3-4 Chimeras doesn't quite seem to be enough. I'm always wishing I had 5-6 of them in formation rather than 3-4. For quite a while I really thought that the mix of armor/unit types was rather strong, but I'm finding it to be very fragile. There is a very good chance that my difficulties with the list are at least partially related to my playstyle as it doesn't really match the army's style. I'm learning to adjust and use the army correctly but for me its a bit of a slow process.

Fateweaver shouldn't matter much against a list like this. Inquisimystics denies the opposing player prime landing zones and then PBS + piles of multilaser shots will result in a failed save at some point in the shooting phase. PIling more points into the IQ to try and get a Psycannon just for Fateweaver also seems really silly. He'll still suck against everything else and you're nearly doubling the cost of his unit just for those 3 Psycannon shots. IMO its a waste. If you REALLY want Psycannons then drop vets and wiggle in a small unit of Grey Knights. I'm finding them to be a rather interesting unit in my current list as most people are a bit thrown off when they try to close distance to my list only to get shot and counter charged by str6 Marines lol. They're ultra expensive points wise though, so they probably aren't worth it (I'm taking them more for the modelling side... they're being modelled as a Deathwatch team that will count as GKs for tournaments).

Mech tau and Mech Eldar however, are nightmares. I HATE those matchups. To be completely honest I've strongly considered dropping an Exec for 3 Hydras just for this matchup (ironically this helps kill Fateweaver quicker too if you're still worried about that).

I can't really see the conventional Necron lists giving an army like this huge problems either. Execs eat Destroyers alive and the Manticore(s) are able to damage the Monoliths, as are the Vendettas. I'd be much more worried about mech Tau/Eldar and Vulkan Marines than anything. Some CSM can be a problem too if they decide to bring a billion Meltas and some Oblits with them. The Daemon lists I'd be more afraid of would be mono-Tzeentch or something similar that is able to put a LOT of Bolts/Tongues on the table.

Got another game vs a not so great mech/droppod marine list and he won the dice off but gave me first turn and dropped in a bit to close so got chewed by executioner + plasma vets due to mystics. Had a bunch of plasma overheats as usual but it didn't really matter his marines and termies were dying.

Vassal games have been really miss this week as far as playing something really competitive. Need to play my friends irl but they busy this week. Hopefully can get in some good games next week.

sexiest_hero
YOu do have a good point that all mech isn't very good against Tau railgun spam or IG heavy weapon spam but how often do you see those lists?

Outside of Vassal I haven't played Tau or Necrons in real life in a long time. The Tau match up is a coin flip. If you get first turn and they don't seize the initiative, you probably win if not you probably lose. My last irl Necron game was Ardboys 2008 where I was playing Tyranids and phased him out for the massacre in short order. I beat Necrons on Vassal when testing my 1850 list. He spent too many points on the Deceiver and 2 monoliths that he was pretty easy to phase out. I did blow up a monolith with the Manticore cause he used them to block off warriors and I had nothing else better to shoot at.

I played footguard with russ and heavy weapon support in ardboys 2009 with my sisters + daemon hunters + guard list and his heavy weapons didn't do alot. between two inquisitor squads I killed 2 heavy weapons teams turn 1 and chimera multi laser took out one guy from another which unfortunately didn't run.

Avariel
Could you send me your latest 1750 and 1850 lists?

I dunno if Psycannon is worth it if I don't have the full bolter team. 30 points for 3 str 6 ap 4 shots is alright but I don't have an extra Chimera for the Inquisitor to sit in and shoot so Inquisitor would be exposed.

I might just chalk up the Fate Crusher game as a auto lose and skip the psycannons period. I haven't been able to beat you or frgsinwnter no matter what I do. Fate Crusher gets a low comp score and I only know 3 people in my area who play it and 2 of them aren't playing it for Conflict.

I have to agree on that most of the AV14 Russes aren't really worth it except for the Executioner and Demolisher.

Tau actually is a pretty bad match up if you don't get first turn its really bad. First turn is huge if they don't know how to react properly but if they do its still pretty bloody and dice reliant. I'd like to play a game versus your Gundam Tau sometime see how that goes since your a good Tau player but even you aren't playing them in the current metagame.

Shotguns on vets might be a good idea. But how often do you assault with Imperial Guard unless you playing the Creed blob with power weapons? I can only see assaulting vs Tau, maybe Eldar and Sisters.

I have to agree with you that alot of Necron players spend too much points on toys and not enough on warriors so are easy to phase out but this will change next codex.

I have yet to win a game against frgsinwntr or yourself playing Fate Crusher so thats a pretty bad match up. Your jet seer council Eldar and outflanking Space Marine Bikers are also really nasty match ups.

Caffran9
What's your list look like? Also what lists are you having problems against?

An early incarnation of my list had 2 Executioners and Grey Knights with 2 Psycannon but I quickly found that Executioners are not only really expensive but pretty crappy vs all mech till you blow up a vehicle and started testing the Manticore.

Manticore has been pure awesome. Busts Land Raiders/Monoliths or kills hordes really well.

Vendettas do take alot of heat and sometimes die pretty quick but you need the ranged transport killing capability of Las cannons and to be able to shoot 2+ save monsterous creatures. Las Cannon Plasma Vets are good here too. Vendettas also provide the scout move assault with melta bombs trick.

Grey Knights I ended up cutting because I wanted to move to 4 troops choices. I was finding the melta bomb vets would either be used for first turn melta bomb assaults or get shot down cause valkyries are huge fire magnets so I would need one troop to sit on my objective and another to capture another to pull out a win in the d3+2 objectives mission. The assault element is nice but they weren't good enough versus the hard assault units and cost too much points at 200+ for the squad alone without a transport.

Chimeras are really fragile especially if you expose your side armor. I try to keep my Chimeras back and use them for fire support.

Fateweaver takes on average 9 wounds to take 1 unsaved wound. 4 chimeras with 4 multi lasers firing 12 shots hitting with 6 wounding with 4 doesn't quite do it. Then he has to make a test on leadership 3 assuming your pbs goes off.

It also takes an insane ammount of fire power to kill 8 complex bloodcrushers with fury, musician, and icon who are spaced 2 inches apart so you aren't hitting all that many with a large template.

Mech Tau if you get first turn you scout your valks in and are within 12 first turn assault with melta bombs and shoot 3 las cannons into their vehicles from within 12 iches so no cover save if they don't reserve it all. If they reserve it all they come in peice meal and might not get the rail guns they need and you get chance to move up and move to cover. They get first turn your probably losing.


I don't like Hydras. I tried them out in an early list and squadrons = the suck. Immobilized = destroyed is sucky. I remember Avariel's scouts with powerfist owning the whole squadron and the multimelta from the storm blew up my executioner. That sucked. I spent 225 points to pop 1 rhino before they got owned. Strength 7 vs av 12 isn't that great yeah you get alot of shots but odds still aren't good. They do put out a reasoanble ammount of dakka vs hordes but Vendettas provide you with fast transport, scout/assault trick, outflank ability and 3 las cannons for poping transports along with putting hurt on 2+/3+ monsterous creatures something hydras don't do as well. I'd probably have Hydras in my list if I play in Ardboys next year but not at 1750-1850.

I'm actually more afraid of jet seer council Eldar then I am against pure mech eldar. Jet seer strength 9 witchblades getting into your tanks is just bad news. They make mincemeat out of guard infantry too. They have a rerollable 3+/4++ from fortune. I don't see this match up enough to warrant spending the points on an Inquisitor Lord with the psychic hood.

I'll have to run a test game against my friend who is a good mechdar player and see how that goes at some point.

For me the Jetseer Council goes in the mechdar list lol (you can fit a massive council in with 3 serpents and 3 prisms at 1750... its a scary list to try and deal with). The council is terrifying yes but honestly its not altogether impossible for you to manage. They only have 1 wound each so even with fortune the models start to fall off the table when facing huge amounts of saves (which your army is capable of putting on them with all your blast weapons and high RoF weapons).

My list looks like yours but mius 2 units of plasma vets and the Manticore for 2 Executioners and a small unit of Grek Knights. I also have Marbo in currently (went from deomlitions on my vets units to Marbo... he costs just 5 points more than demo on the vet units and adds an interesting dynamic to the list... I'm not sure I like him yet though he needs A LOT more testing. Sometimes he's outrageous and other times terible).

Honestly models are the big problem for me at this point otherwise I'd be playing at least 1 Manticore and probably a pair of Banewolves. Like I said, I like your list more than mine lol.

The IQ/Hood can be good against Gating Librarians, CSM/Lash (once they crack a tank or two), SW (Living Lightning is scary) and of course Eldar. Its something I've really considered, but you're basically spending like 50 points to get the Hood when you upgrade the elite IQ to an HQ one. It seems like a massive points leap for something that is still only good in limited situations so I haven't bothered with it yet. I've been considering fleshing out the retinue and going to town with it. You can get 3-4 meltas in it and use it like a CCS. Its expensive though.

Try 2 seer councils + 3 serpents + 2 fire prism that is Avariel's list. I might as well pack up my models cause I am not beating that. It dies hard to her Space Wolf list though.

I haven't actually finished building my Manticore yet. Been testing it on Vassal or proxying it.

Banewolves seem to have the biggest red KILL ME sign on them that you ever did see. I test them in the early Creed outflank list I had but that list had too much gimmick and not enough stuff.

Valkyries are definitely in my final list because they are magnetized and done.

The 51+ points to upgrade to Inquisitor Lord, Hood and buy a 3rd henchman if you don't have one already doesn't seem worth it because you don't use it all the time. I cut the Astropath and Officer of the Fleet because they weren't good all the time. At least the basic inquisitor with the mystics and the tarot if nothing else I get a +1 to go first 5/6 of the time if deepstrike isn't relavent.

Played some more games with this list.

Lost to a kill point game vs khorne/tzeench daemon list with pair of bloodthirsters, pair of bloodcrusher units, horrors with bolt and a grinder. just couldn't kill enough. He got a lucky bolt first turn shot to kill my inquisitor valkyrie His thirsters got to smashing vehicles fast which was a big problem. Getting a bunch of overheats on plasma wasn't too good either. I seem to roll a ton of 1s and thus get alot of overheats. Might end up going all melta at this rate. castling up to protect the plasma las cannon vets was probably a good strategy if I didn't overheat so much.

Won a 4 objective game vs a mixed Ork list with mix of 30 man boy squads, some killa cans and some lootas. Manticore got rid of his lootas early and then I was just pouring fire into the closest boy squad. shooting vendettas at kans and I used valks to snag the objectives with their mobility. Debating a second manticore for the Horde Ork match up. I had enough fire power to kill his orks with him going for objectives rather then staight for my guys but if he was going straight for my guys it might have been a bit dicey. Got a Massacred 3 objectives to his none.

Won another IG on IG grudge match. He had a CCS and 3 vets with meltas in chimeras, 2 vanquishers 2 punishers and 2 regular russes. I had em out ranged with anti tank so went for his scoring vets first knocking them out first. The way he set up it wasn't worth it to first turn melta bomb anything since I couldn't get to his russ squadrons. Well I did have a clear line to the punishers but I didn't bother. He was hard pressed to kill my troops after I killed his and I was able to take objectives with valks.

Lost a pitched battle kill points to Space wolves with thunderwolf lord, 2x ferensian wolves, thunder wolves, 3 x grey hunters in rhinos and 2x long fangs. I lost first turn so the wolves got to me pretty fast and just too hard to get kill points and once those wolves start smashing vehicles I had problems one unit of Plasmas rolled triple ones and all over heated, other did a decent job putting wounds on thunderwolves but couldn't kill the unit before they took out some tanks. Maybe reserving and coming on where the wolves weren't might have been better. Those long fangs hurt. problem with that though is the plasma las cannons can't shoot long distance

Played some more games with this list.

Beat a land raider spam Daemon hunters player. Manticore was the MVP killing 2 raiders and I killed 2 others with valkyrie scout move and melta bombs. Was just mop up after that.

Lost to horde orks in dawn of war. He put a mek in the middle and congo lined his orks on either side. Despite me coming in one one side he got to me fast with a warg into multi assaults on my vehicles and did a ton of damage.

I'm thinking I might want to drop the Executioner for a 2nd Manticore and Marbo to have more Ork killing power. On the fence about Marbo, he seems good on paper but seems unreliable and gives up a kill point.